new engine, how to proceed with my budget?

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:19 pm

sidecar wrote:
ChrisJC wrote:
sidecar wrote:I don't see how you can say that, it totally depends on how the engine has been looked after and with 100k on the clock there has been plenty of time for someone to run it low on oil or not change the oil, that would soon take its toll on the bearings.
Just statistics. It is almost unheard of for an engine to be worn out at 100K. If it was at 200K, I'd agree. But 100K on modern lubricants (even with neglect) is nothing.

You just don't get the sort of engine failures at 100K mileages that you used to.

Chris.
I'm afraid I don't agree, but each to there own!

Hi
I am afraid I can't agree Chris here either especially with an engine like the rover 4.6, as is demonstrated time and again this engine really suffers if it doesn't have its oil changed at the right time, it suffers if it overheats and by 45k the cam can be shot even if it is looked after, OK the bors may be OK and a reshell can get another 100 k out of the mains, but if the oil is just left in there (and don't tell me that main dealers always change the oil they charge you for, just write the date on your oil filter next time you take the car in for a service) no there are too many variables to say that.
Best regards
Mike

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:03 pm

If the engine has been overheated, then yes, I agree it might not be a very usable lump.

But with the composite gaskets, they don't sludge up like the old engines did, so their lifetime is much longer.

I stripped my engine at 104K, and apart from a cracked block, it was brand new inside. Camshaft lobes measured to be basically unworn. Bores / bearings untouched. Modern lubricants are amazing.

Chris.

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:09 pm

As a matter of interest, what oil did you use, Chris?

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:32 pm

DaveEFI wrote:As a matter of interest, what oil did you use, Chris?

Boggo standard semi-synthetic 10W/40 from my local motor factor. Not a known brand. I just followed the instructions in the car's manual - I figured Land Rover know what they are on about.....(I hope!).

Chris.

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:42 pm

Interesting given most reckon the cam will wear quickly unless a high zinc oil is used.

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:39 pm

DaveEFI wrote:Interesting given most reckon the cam will wear quickly unless a high zinc oil is used.

I will be finding out, as this engine got a new cam during the rebuild, and after the initial 20min high-speed running in period (with cam-lube and running in oil), it will be run on 10W/40 semi-synthetic, changed every 6000 miles. Give me 10 years and I will have an answer!!!

Chris.

mgbv8 · Post by **mgbv8** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:03 pm

Forbito wrote:Yes, the quote for stripping the block and testing it is 200 pounds, so I will proceed with it.
If I have a confirmation of the good condition of the block, I can get a quote to reassembly the engine with new main bearings, cam and timing chain.
I think that the major cost for a rebuilding here in Italy doesn't depend only on the price of spares.
An example is the quote that has been done for a 3.9 of another guy:
4,161 € + VAT for a complete rebuilding with new liners (standard); correction of cylinders, superior part of the block, heads and crankshaft, new pistons (834€!), main bearings and gaskets.

With the same price I could buy a new long engine with much better performance than original 3.9...

However, when I will have more informations about the health of my engine (I hope by the beginning of December), I will write here the diagnosis.

Thank you all guys

If the pressure test is all good then you can rebuild yourself to save money?

Forbito · Post by **Forbito** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:50 pm

I couldn't rebuild it myself because I don't have all the tools required, for example it would be impossible for me to fit new liners in the block. What I can do is asking a quote for the rebuilding in Italy, but buying all the spares from UK at a much cheaper price.

However, while I am waiting for the pressure test, I am considering the possibility to buy this engine cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=321265276295
It doesn't have top hat liners, but has the tuning level I am looking for, with a good price. It includes stainless steel headers, an external oil pump and an Emerald ECU.

It is written that the engine has a new block and was supplied by a company named Rover Tech, but I don't know if there is something to demonstrate the rebuilding, like an invoice.

Does anyone know the seller?

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:11 pm

Lot of money for an engine with expressly no warranty.

Forbito · Post by **Forbito** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:57 pm

Yes, I didn't see that it is an auction with a reserve to meet. I'm waiting for the reply of the seller, to know if he can give me any type of warranty

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:56 pm

Hi
It looks like a lot of money to me as the only two new components on it when it was rebuilt were the sump and distributor cap, everything else looks recycled, especially the external oil pump and headers.
Eight hours is a lot of dyno time for anything but a development motor, which is exactly what I think this is. I think it has been built to test out a specification and test out ideas on a dyno, after a good thrashing of the components (sourced from several other engines) the proper race engine was built from new components and this was sat in the corner. Personally I would not want to offer any type of warranty on this, it will be warn out.
Sorry to be a party pooper but I think it would only bring tears.
just thinking about it again. . . 8 hours on a Dyno, there was a time I don't think a single layland motor could have survived more than about 4 full throttle on a water brake. think about this for a minute this motor has done the equivalent of about a 1,100 miles at 140mph on the motorway in a range rover.
Best regards
Mike

Forbito · Post by **Forbito** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:18 pm

kiwicar wrote: Sorry to be a party pooper but I think it would only bring tears.

An intervention like yours is exactly what I hope to get in a forum, a good advice by those who have a lot more experience than me

I will continue on my way to rebuild and use the 4.6 that I already have, I think that is the best choice after all.

mgbv8 · Post by **mgbv8** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:40 pm

Forbito wrote:
kiwicar wrote: Sorry to be a party pooper but I think it would only bring tears.
An intervention like yours is exactly what I hope to get in a forum, a good advice by those who have a lot more experience than me

I will continue on my way to rebuild and use the 4.6 that I already have, I think that is the best choice after all.

Its got old 14 bolt heads. I guess thats why he mentioned the valve stem seal upgrade. 230hp for a high comp 4.6 on injection seems low to me?
It hasnt run for 9 years but it could be ok inside if its been kept lubed and turned over assuming the plugs have been kept in? At that price its a massive gamble if he ever gets anyone to bid. Which I doubt ??

Forbito · Post by **Forbito** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:50 pm

I have finally received the verdict: the engine is cracked between two liners

The engine seems to already have top hat liners!
The rest of the engine is in good condition.

Now I have no idea to what to do with this 4.6

Some pics:

Forbito · Post by **Forbito** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:59 am

The mechanic said that he would risk, leaving the block as it is, but I would loose the warranty. Awful idea I think