Engine will not start... please save my wife !!!

Redders · Post by **Redders** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:57 am

OK, its not a nice place at home for my wife at the moment as she is learning new swear words every time i go out to the garage and the car does not start, please could someone help me with a sanity check..... PLEASE !!!!
So a bit of background, I am running a 3.5 l (of SDI parentage I think) in a kit car, I brought the car about a year ago, when I purchased it it was not a runner, after much messing about I found a muppet had piped up the twin SU's wrong, so after changing the pipework she fired into life.. she has never run smooth, so I managed to acquire a Eldbrock carb for her, this would help with bonnet height and it looks like at some point its had cooling issues. Over the winter I have removed the 5 speed g/box to free off the clutch (plate stuck to flywheel) and put back together, and also swapped the SU's for the Eldbrock carb, now this is where the problem begins.
She just wont fire up... So I had thought it must be the carb which i had replaced not fuelling the car... having poured petrol straight down into the manifold she still never run. Upon checking the spark I thought it looks weak, so I borrowed a manual (point dissy) and it did not make much difference. (I am running a 35DLM8 distributer) swapped caps, tried a few different coils, have powered coil straight from battery, have earthed coil direct to battery but still nothing... I have re timed the engine, removed no 1 spark plug found TDC and refitted dissy with slight advance, checked the firing order, seems to be correct.... I burnt out the starter while winding over!
Anyway my question is, what am I missing ? could the rings not be sealing on piston for enough compression as she has been standing? she will cough and bang with the starter and attempt at some sort of firing but never run, I tried brake cleaner into inlet like someone suggested, not even that would make her start.... HELP !!!

PS.. she is a manual choke, Petrol is getting to the jets on the front of carb (accelerator pedal jets) I have tried it choke and no choke and like I say put petrol direct through the top of carb into inlet manifold....

P.P S... sorry for long winded question but just need some fresh ideas !

DEVONMAN · Post by **DEVONMAN** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:41 am

Sorry to go back to basics but was No 1 at TDC on the "firing stroke" when you fitted the dizzy?

On a separate issue, I assume you meant to say you used Easy start and not brake cleaner..

I read somewhere that Brake cleaner is lethal if inhaled when ignited.
So a back fire from the carb in your face could be nasty.

Regards Denis

richardpope50 · Post by **richardpope50** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:42 am

To me if it coughs, splutters and bangs it is timing, seems it cannot be mechanical valve timing (as it ran) and if the plugs are wet it's not fuel.

I had a 3.5 RV8 and my TVR RV8 and the distributor HT leads were 180 degrees out from each other so is No. 1 + rotor arm + HT lead correct for a firing stroke? It seems you checked this, though.

Have you used a strobe when cranking (with plugs out) to check timing is approx 10BTDC?

It will be a simple problem, always is.

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:11 am

If it's spitting back it's very likely it's not sparking on the firing stroke.

No1 cylinder is the front one on the nearside.

Remove the rocker cover and turn the engine so the valves are both closed on No1 when it approaches the timing mark. Then check the plug leads are thus, and the rotor arm is pointing at No1:-

Redders · Post by **Redders** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:23 am

Yes it was a dose of clutch and brake cleaner in the inlet manifold !! i was clutching at straws and I read it was less aggressive than easy start...
I removed the rocker cover on RH bank of the engine, turned her over on crank pulley until no 1 came to top, both valves closed, removed the sparkplug and put a small screwdriver in bore to find top dead center..
its not spitting back through the carb just trying to fire on startermotor then it will just keep turning over for a while and maybe try and fire every now and again.
rotor arm is pointing to lead going to no 1 cylinder when at TDC, i have then moved distributor body so the pick up is in line inside the distributor ..
should i advance it a few degrees ? or will it start on TDC timing ?

Redders · Post by **Redders** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:46 pm

ok, another update, took all the NGK spark plugs out and re gapped them 0.80 mm, they were all wet and smelling of petrol, I still dont think its a fuel issue. applied the taco strobe and adjusted the timing 10 degrees BTDC with VAC pipe on and done it again with it off... still no different.
What I have noted, that the sump appears to have increased in level, smells like petrol mixed in with the oil. Compression issue ????
When I got it and the SU's were piped up wrong, the petrol was being pumped straight through the vac line direct into the inlet manifold, the first thing I noticed was the oil level had raised... if I have poured fuel in again now should it seal enough or will the petrol pass the rings to sump ?? I guess the only way is to compression test each cylinder ? I guess though it would still attempt to run even with low compression .... Thoughts ?.
Its defo trying to fire up, even get some smoke from the exhaust now and then... silly question, when I took gearbox out, I have removed the back half of the exhaust pipe, does it need this to create a back pressure in the engine ??? .... yes I am clutching at straws !!!

richardpope50 · Post by **richardpope50** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:00 am

Fuel will slip own beside the rings but that's an awful lot of fuel in the sump - ( I had this on a garden tractor as the carb on/off valve stuck open).

I still think it is timing or not enough fuel to keep running but plugs are wet so guess not. Whilst Dave's diagram is correct, in my case one engine actually was not this layout and 180 degrees out - took some finding and it was an old 3.5 SU RV8 that I had removed from donor vehicle. (I had removed the HT leads without marking them up so put them back as per manual.)

texpis · Post by **texpis** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:18 am

If you have wet the plugs that much you may have knackered them try a new set of plugs.

Mick

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:42 pm

Hi
Just a quick question, you are using nice fresh new petrol to try and start this car? Not what was left in the tank when it last ran, diluted with a couple of gallons of stuff from a can in the garage used for the lawnmower??
Secondly if the plugs became saturated then chuck them out and fit new, Rovers seem not like plug that have been saturated with petrol, atleast burn off any deposits with a blow lamp but renewing them is a much better idea. you could try hot plugging it, stick all 8 plugs on a baking tray in the oven on flat out, once medium to well done get them out of the oven and into the engine as quickly as possable (use thick oven gloves) and start it as quickly as you can.
It would be easier to start it on the SUs if they are not totally junk.
Best regards
Mike

Redders · Post by **Redders** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:55 pm

OK update..... I have no idea what I have done but it started, the only thing i had done was push the car out of the garage and out into the sun ! I had tried to start it this morning again with no results (outside).. left it outside this afternoon in a little sun and I thought I will give it another go before putting back in the garage and boom couple of turns and it fired up !!!! so was it cold, does it not like the dark garage.. maybe it suffers SAD ??? who knows... but it started and I have no explanation why

only thing I could think it was damp !
just tried it again after letting it rest for couple of hours and fired straight away ! ....... so I guess I am perplexed !!!

Eliot · Post by **Eliot** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:47 am

Redders wrote:ok, another update, took all the NGK spark plugs out and re gapped them 0.80 mm, they were all wet and smelling of petrol, I still dont think its a fuel issue. applied the taco strobe and adjusted the timing 10 degrees BTDC with VAC pipe on and done it again with it off... still no different.
What I have noted, that the sump appears to have increased in level, smells like petrol mixed in with the oil.

With all that cranking and pouring fuel down the carb - i suspect you have indeed got petrol into the oil - especially if you were cranking it long enough to burn the starter out.
I would *Strongly* suggest you change the oil immediately otherwise you risk wrecking the bearings.

Also check your float levels to make sure the carb isn't simply dumping into the engine - and only give it a pump or two on start up, no need to keep repeatidly stabbing the throttle, it squirts a fair amount of fuel in each time.

Here's the bearings from a 440 big block that someone had spent weeks trying to start, filling the sump up with fuel:

The oil came out like water.

Redders · Post by **Redders** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:05 pm

Ouch ! I hope that I have not damaged mine... ordered a new oil filter today, and will change oil before i try and start her again..... What the best grade of oil to use in the V8 ?

mgbv8 · Post by **mgbv8** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:12 pm

Where do you live REDDERS ???

You may be near one of us that could pop in to give you another pair of eyes on the engine ??

Redders · Post by **Redders** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:21 am

Hi
I am in Essex

mgbv8 · Post by **mgbv8** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:58 am

Essex is a big place mate.

You on the London end or the southend end ??