Rotrex C38 on my 5.4L RV8

Eliot · Post by **Eliot** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:40 am

Will be interesting to see how your journey pans out. As you said, info is scarce but the parts a relatively cheap - so you can mess around a bit.

Ironically i replaced the whole setup with a £90 ebay intercooler core which returned a 13'c temperature delta to ambient. Although I had to wind the boost pressure up, as I appeared to loose 2 psi of boost between that and the chargecooler setup.

powernut · Post by **powernut** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:35 pm

havent any of you guys tryed fridgerated gas , (like a air con pump produces ) , basicly not only runs 110percent cooler then water , but also keeps cool ,and be perfect for a charge cooler setup to keep air and boost temps at a minium providing the charge cooler core is big enoegh

mgbv8 · Post by **mgbv8** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:07 pm

powernut wrote:havent any of you guys tryed fridgerated gas , (like a air con pump produces ) , basicly not only runs 110percent cooler then water , but also keeps cool ,and be perfect for a charge cooler setup to keep air and boost temps at a minium providing the charge cooler core is big enoegh

How funny that you should say that???
I was stiting in my truck the other day looking at the huge bulge in my bonnet where the intercooler sits. There is a massive difference in grunt in my old diesel in the summer between the cool damp early morning run to work, and the afternoon driving at say 22C.

Then I thought about how it would work if the evaporator / cooling coil of my a/c system was mounted over the intercooler?? I wonder how much power it would make to overcome the power drain from running the ac compressor?

SuperV8 · Post by **SuperV8** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:44 pm

How about a fusion intercooler?

http://autospeed.com/cms/title_The-Fusi ... ticle.html

tom

powernut · Post by **powernut** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:00 pm

mgbv8 wrote:
powernut wrote:havent any of you guys tryed fridgerated gas , (like a air con pump produces ) , basicly not only runs 110percent cooler then water , but also keeps cool ,and be perfect for a charge cooler setup to keep air and boost temps at a minium providing the charge cooler core is big enoegh
How funny that you should say that???
I was stiting in my truck the other day looking at the huge bulge in my bonnet where the intercooler sits. There is a massive difference in grunt in my old diesel in the summer between the cool damp early morning run to work, and the afternoon driving at say 22C.

Then I thought about how it would work if the evaporator / cooling coil of my a/c system was mounted over the intercooler?? I wonder how much power it would make to overcome the power drain from running the ac compressor?

personaly its not a case of will it work , it will work , as we all know when cold forced air is sucked into the engine it makes a nice differnce compaird to hot air which can cause heat soak , timing retard and det, plus a evern better of thinking , a freeze created very cold air , with that affect theres no reason , with that idea why it carnt work , as long as the cooler has enoegh cooling cores , so it keeps warm air coool

daxtojeiro · Post by **daxtojeiro** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:09 pm

If this did work then surely OEMs would do it? This would work for a NA engine as well as a boosted engine.

Certainly worth exploring if I had A/Con already, but I dont have it

Phil

powernut · Post by **powernut** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:44 pm

daxtojeiro wrote:If this did work then surely OEMs would do it? This would work for a NA engine as well as a boosted engine.

Certainly worth exploring if I had A/Con already, but I dont have it

Phil

personaly you wouldnt see the best affects , with n/a system , as most n/a boosted vechicals only get 10/15bhp just by altering fuel and re limiters, but on a boosted engine, certainly worth it with good gains and low intake manifold -temps keeping cooler and more efficant flow, why not adapt a aircon pump , on the engine , sure must be some room lower down on the engine block .near the crank pulleys phil

Eliot · Post by **Eliot** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:32 am

daxtojeiro wrote:If this did work then surely OEMs would do it?

I seem to remember Ford having a patent on it actually.
It only allowed short periods of extra boost i believe, because the air flow would overwhelm the a/c system very quickly.

edit - 10 seconds of googling and i've found it:
http://www.fordforums.com/f474/svts-sup ... ned-33176/

and:
Ford’s patented SuperCooler technology cleverly provides a special burst of power for the SVT Lightning concept. Traditional intercoolers dissipate heat from the supercharged air by circulating coolant through a front-mounted, air-cooled radiator. With the SuperCooler system, the vehicle’s air conditioning system is used to chill a small storage tank of coolant to about 30 degrees Fahrenheit. On demand, the SuperCooler system switches the intercooler flow from its normal circulation and dumps the chilled coolant into the engine’s intercooler. In turn, the intercooler dissipates up to 20 percent more heat from the charge air – resulting in a denser air charge. A green light on the instrument panel indicates the system’s readiness. SuperCooler is activated automatically when the driver depresses the accelerator to a wide-open-throttle position.

http://media.ford.com/article_display.c ... e_id=14096

neal1980 · Post by **neal1980** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:48 pm

Why has water injection not been mentioned?? Surely the easiest to implement and with the advanced systems these days will give better results than an intercooler or chargecooler.

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:35 am

Hi
I cannot entirly agree with you there, water injection is good at supressing detonation and stabalising the combustion, often allowing more CR or more ignition timing, allowing operation outside the ideal range. It does not significantly cool the inlet charge.
However it does nothing to increase power in itself. Lowering inlet tremperature via an intercooler of charge cooler increases the density of the charge going into the engine and, aswell as making the engine less prone to detonation it gives more oxygen to burn more fuel, result more power, and therefor a better solution.
Best regards
Mike

daxtojeiro · Post by **daxtojeiro** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:20 am

Its also not a very robust solution, can be tempremental and not real way of knowing its working unless you add flow detection.
An Intercooler is the best solution as far as reliability goes, a charge cooler shouldnt be too far behind it as long as its designed correctly,
Phil

daxtojeiro · Post by **daxtojeiro** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:33 am

Aligns ok, still need to weld the front bracket on.

Unsure of which route to take for the belt, SC Power run it short across the crank pulley (Next Picture)

Im tempted to try it this next way, looks better apart from the alternator wrap.

Any thoughts?
Phil

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:15 pm

"Any thoughts"
I would go with the second belt layout that gives you maximum wrap on the crank pully, it may cost you a horse power or two and a slightly warmer belt but you have quite a lot of "stuff" to drive off that beltand I think it would ensure against belt slip, which ultimatly could be a pain.
Other thoughts,
You could do with more wrap on the altinator pully, or could you drive it off a seperate toothed belt off the water pump??
Couldn't you have built a 600bhp+ Ford FE (or a 700+ bhp 460) for the money wrapped up in this engine? (or is this a bad thought

).
It is a pretty colour

Best regards
Mike

daxtojeiro · Post by **daxtojeiro** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:52 pm

kiwicar wrote: Couldn't you have built a 600bhp+ Ford FE (or a 700+ bhp 460) for the money wrapped up in this engine? (or is this a bad thought ).
It is a pretty colour
Best regards
Mike

It just evolved over time from a 3.5 to a supercharged 3.5, to a 5.0, to a 5.4 then .......

If I had all the cash Id spent on it to buy an engine, then yes, I would have done it differently, but it wouldn't have been so much fun

I'm already trying to think what to do next, can't come up with anything yet

Phil

Cobratone · Post by **Cobratone** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:07 pm

daxtojeiro wrote:I'm already trying to think what to do next, can't come up with anything yet

Phil

Elocution lessons so we can understand your Youtube videos??