Need new engine magnament. RV8

kokkolanpoika · Post by **kokkolanpoika** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:11 pm

Hi.

My RV8 5.2litre stage4, ITB setup need new engine magnament. My old haltech capabilities arent suitable enough for the ITB purpose anymore. fuel maps can be adjusted only 500rpm steps.. So very hard to tune cruising mixture. Almost impossible.

Couple of choises.
Haltech platinium sport 1000
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdet ... 1000/16233
Semi sequential injection mode. approx 1250£ inc vat and freight. Without ignition coil etc.

Or Megasquirt 3
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/mega ... p-435.html
Semi or full sequential if needed. Without ignition coil etc. 750£ inc wires, relays, vat and freight.

Or Hestech (made in Finland)
similar as haltech, semi sequential (full sequential if needed, cost couple of £ more) same price as haltech.

I need that maps can be adjusted at least 250rpm steps for batch fire mode for 1000-2000rpm range with TPS sensor.
(engine made -0.35bar vacuum at idle/cruising. So MAP is not suitable).
And i hear that semi sequential or sequental will also help adjusting cruising mixture. + emission is slightly better?

What you recon boy´s? And what type fuel injection you are running with ITB

daxtojeiro · Post by **daxtojeiro** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:43 pm

Id go for an MS3, but a bit cheaper from here (£560 inc looms, comms lead, manuals plus £18 postage)
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/MS_All_products.htm

If not theres kits available to for semi-seq using MS2, etc, etc on the above site.

I've had my 5.0L RV8 running seq fuel and spark for a while now, I'm about to get my 5.4L RV8 this weekend and that will be running the same,
Phil

ian.stewart · Post by **ian.stewart** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:47 am

Emerald M3dk, seems to cover those things

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:02 am

Emerald as above

Info from website below.

MOVABLE SPEED SITES

Emerald has always been proud of the speed capability of the system. Previously we had 32 speed sites at 500rpm intervals giving a total rpm span from Zero to 15,500rpm. The system has been bench tested on a simulated 36-1 trigger wheel to a staggering 44,000rpm - before it started to lose accuracy! We were confident that our 15,500rpm rev limit was no idle boast but to the best of our knowledge nobody has ever made use of it. Users were therefore asking for more speed sites over a lower speed range.
Consequently the K3 software package allows you to move the speed site position; which means you can shuffle the sites down the rpm range and have them anywhere you like. We wanted to give even the most demanding customer no cause for complaint so the resolution on site setting is one rpm (1 rpm). You can space them anywhere you like, even or uneven and all speed related events, like warm up tables, ignition sites, etc, move position to stay in alignment. This means you can move sites half way through mapping and carry on as if nothing had changed: practical as well as clever.

Eliot · Post by **Eliot** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:25 am

Mark wrote:Emerald as above

Info from website below.

MOVABLE SPEED SITES

Emerald has always been proud of the speed capability of the system. Previously we had 32 speed sites at 500rpm intervals giving a total rpm span from Zero to 15,500rpm. The system has been bench tested on a simulated 36-1 trigger wheel to a staggering 44,000rpm - before it started to lose accuracy! We were confident that our 15,500rpm rev limit was no idle boast but to the best of our knowledge nobody has ever made use of it. Users were therefore asking for more speed sites over a lower speed range.
Consequently the K3 software package allows you to move the speed site position; which means you can shuffle the sites down the rpm range and have them anywhere you like. We wanted to give even the most demanding customer no cause for complaint so the resolution on site setting is one rpm (1 rpm). You can space them anywhere you like, even or uneven and all speed related events, like warm up tables, ignition sites, etc, move position to stay in alignment. This means you can move sites half way through mapping and carry on as if nothing had changed: practical as well as clever.

Wow what an amazing development - we are honoured!
Megasquirt has has done this on both axis since day one.

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:57 am

Pretty sure the Haltech can run up to 32x32 maps with all sites being totally user definable. But IMO I cant see why any engine using a normal rpm range would ever need so many.

Also look at the Adaptronic. For the money it is a very capable ecu !

http://www.efi-parts.co.uk/index.php?productID=117

For a n/a vehicle, I cant see anyone needing much larger than say 14x14 and even that is a lot.

I'll be fitting an Adaptronic to my Volvo when I stop throwing money at this other junker lol

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:01 pm

stevieturbo wrote:Pretty sure the Haltech can run up to 32x32 maps with all sites being totally user definable. But IMO I cant see why any engine using a normal rpm range would ever need so many.

Also look at the Adaptronic. For the money it is a very capable ecu !

http://www.efi-parts.co.uk/index.php?productID=117

For a n/a vehicle, I cant see anyone needing much larger than say 14x14 and even that is a lot.

I'll be fitting an Adaptronic to my Volvo when I stop throwing money at this other junker lol

Looks like an expensive option to the MS of the same spec, for a V8.

Post by **katanaman** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:05 pm

What engine in the Volvo Stevie? The system you linked to only has 3 spark outputs so isnt (possibly EDIS right enough) going to do a V8. The 440 select can do 4 outputs but that's £900. Hardly a bargain, or am I missing something?

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:49 pm

katanaman wrote:What engine in the Volvo Stevie? The system you linked to only has 3 spark outputs so isnt (possibly EDIS right enough) going to do a V8. The 440 select can do 4 outputs but that's £900. Hardly a bargain, or am I missing something?

Just an old 2.3 turbo

And true enough about ignition...thought it had 4. My bad.

kokkolanpoika · Post by **kokkolanpoika** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:53 pm

My proplem is when i´m cruising say 1500rpm. Readings for Haltech: Throttles are opened 3%. When i slightly press gas pedal, throttle plates are now 5% open. But TPS arrow will stay with same fuel bar as 3%, but engine speed is ~1800rpm. So proplem is that engine will run quite lean or rich between 1500-1800rpm cruising speed. I tryed another TPS sensor, and it will work similar. I have to press over 3% gas pedal, before arrow moves to next fuel bar with 1500rpm map.
So my old haltech map´s arent suitable anymore. If maps are like MS, i think it will work, because i can program them.

I tryed MAP sensor, But engine made only -0.35bar vacuum for idling/cruising speed, so it is impossible to tune it with MAP sensor.

Also my local Jenvey dealer/hestec guru says, your haltech is to old, you may need semi-sequential injection, or your maps should be adjusted atleast say 200rpm step´s.

Hope some one understand what i try to say.

daxtojeiro · Post by **daxtojeiro** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:02 pm

kokkolanpoika wrote:My proplem is when i´m cruising say 1500rpm. Readings for Haltech: Throttles are opened 3%. When i slightly press gas pedal, throttle plates are now 5% open. But TPS arrow will stay with same fuel bar as 3%, but engine speed is ~1800rpm. So proplem is that engine will run quite lean or rich between 1500-1800rpm cruising speed. I tryed another TPS sensor, and it will work similar. I have to press over 3% gas pedal, before arrow moves to next fuel bar with 1500rpm map.
So my old haltech map´s arent suitable anymore. If maps are like MS, i think it will work, because i can program them.

I tryed MAP sensor, But engine made only -0.35bar vacuum for idling/cruising speed, so it is impossible to tune it with MAP sensor.

Also my local Jenvey dealer/hestec guru says, your haltech is to old, you may need semi-sequential injection, or your maps should be adjusted atleast say 200rpm step´s.

Hope some one understand what i try to say.

You need a lot of tuning rows at the low throttle opening area. Usually the first 10-15% of the throttle opening is the hardest to tune and therefore where most of the tuning rows are focuses.

As you have ITBs then you may have a small gain from semi or full seq, it will certainly help you get that little extra from it, but its not essential.
If you want to go semi-seq then you dont need an MS3, you can do it for around £460 with an MS2.

Phil

kokkolanpoika · Post by **kokkolanpoika** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:13 am

Any experience of DTA engine magnament? John Eales recon DTA S60Pro. It is quite cheap in Finland, +300£ cheaper than Eales price, and DTA S80Pro is 300£ more than MS3 with same capabilities.

http://www.dtafast.co.uk/S_60_PRO.htm

http://www.dtafast.co.uk/S_80_PRO.htm ~1030£ inc vat and wiring loom

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:07 pm

Ive used DTA for years and they are quite good.

But you are limited to 14x14 maps, so if you think you need more resolution than this, then they may not be for you.

Although 14x14 should be more than enough for 95% of engines

Pretty sure the likes of Autronic only has 12x12

And as mentioned earlier, Haltech up to 32x32 which is mental. Although their maps are very easy to manipulate and tune.

kokkolanpoika · Post by **kokkolanpoika** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:53 am

I think 14x14 maps can handle my setup because RPM and load breakpoints can be calibrated by the user. That is a big + vs my old haltech. I will say i only need approx 12-16bar when i program my haltech, then rest of the map will go straight line to bar 32.