P38 Range rover block needed

ojika · Post by **ojika** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:58 am

Hi guys. Have a RR P38 that has had a replacement engine by a previous owner who said it was an rpi one. It developed a loud rattle but no ther telltale signs of the possibility of a slipped liner. 2 friends of a friend that are RR mechanics were convinced it was the cam so have had the cam changed and it still sounds the same so looks like it is a slipped liner and the engine numbers say its not original but not rpi,,,ouch.
Can anyone point me in the direction of a good value for money short engine as money is drasticly depleting after having the cam fitted.
pleeaaassssee help

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:32 am

Hi
If the sympton is a rattle, that does not sound like a slipped liner to me. They slip a few thou of an inch, and it tends to be down the block, not free to move up and down and rattle about. I would suggest properly diagnosing the problem before you change any more parts. Where is the rattle from? top end, bottom end? left bank? right bank? front or back of the engne? is it at engine speed or half engine speed? Is it the engine, not just a blown exhaust gasket, this can sound very metallic, I once changed cam and tappets because of a blown exhaust gasket, it really sounds that metallic. Before you go any further, confirm the problem before you try and fix it.
Best regards
Mike

Ian Anderson · Post by **Ian Anderson** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:15 pm

Check the head to exhaust manifolds for leaks (black marks)

Sounds crazy but a small leak here can sound like a rattle

Ian

ojika · Post by **ojika** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:24 pm

cheers for the quick response guys.
It is ok when cold but when warms up it sounds like a loud metalic clonking tappet rattle coming from the drivers side bank near the back of the engine. It becomes quieter when revved above 1500 revs but not totaly quiet. It has even been known to go quiet now and again. There is no loss of water or oil or cross contamination and with the rocker off the tappets look very clean and work well but the rattle didnt sound any louder once the rocker was off and we started it.

Ian Anderson · Post by **Ian Anderson** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:51 pm

What oil are you running?
It must be 20W50
Ian

ojika · Post by **ojika** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:20 pm

yes, it is, as soon as it started to happen I had the engine flushed and an oil and filter change in case that was the cause. Just had a word with my mechanic mate and he is pretty sure it is a slipped liner , had a look at the exhaust gasket and no blackness around it , he said that they tend to rattle when the thermostat opens and that it rattes on tickover once its warm but balances itself out as the revs are increased.
I have a basic knowledge of mechanics so dont really know, but does seem like a loud metal on metal clonking

chodjinn · Post by **chodjinn** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:41 pm

I've never heard of a rattling slipped liner before, like someone said above they slip a tiny tiny amount an not enough to generate the noise you are talking. You're mechanic friend may be convinced, but has he had a 4.6 Rover V8 with a dropped liner before? Have you checked every possible bolt on the head side you are talking?

And sounds daft, but check the splash plates in the rocker cover doesn't have a bolt or something rolling around behind it.

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:44 pm

Hi
all the symptoms sound like leaky exhaust gasket, the quiet when cold, worse when warm, quietening off when reved, the one thing it doesn't sound like is a slipped liner. You are talknig 2-3 thou drop when they go, they are still held in place by the gasket and the bottom of the block. They have no where to rattle, they just don't clamp tightly enough against the head gasket to seal anymore but they cant move up and down. Have you had a hydrocarbon test done on the cooling system, that will tell you for certain if it is a slipped liner or blown head gasket. Exhaust gaskets are pence each, a new block is going to leave you out of pocket about £1500 by you have had someone fit it. If I was going to change some more bits as a stab at finding this fault I would do the gaskets first rather than a short engine, if it is not the exhaust gaskets then I'm one stage closer without having coughed up £1500. If it isn't the exhaust gasket, have you definatly eliminated the head gasket?
These can blow straight out to the outside of the block (ask Perry!) and again they can sount metallicy when they go.
Best regards
Mike

ojika · Post by **ojika** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:05 pm

Ah, ok, I have been told by 3 different "RR specialists" that a slipped liner , sounds like a noisy tappet/cam noise which is what it sounds like. Had a chat with the mechanic and he just dismissed my question about the gasket saying its defenitly a liner. So will pick it up from him later today as it is and see if I can find someone who can help to rule out all possibilities,

cheers guys, will let you know how I get on. Just hope I can find someone to help as that is 2 people that are friends of friends and another RR garage, all said " its probably the cam , if not , defenitly a slipped liner" so not sure where to go next. Can anyone reccomend anyone in Oxfordshire?
Which is a right bugger as the engine was only replaced 40-50000 miles ago by a previous owner.

ojika · Post by **ojika** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:30 pm

also, the other Rangie forums I am on have said on there that a slipped liner sounds like tappets except tappets are worse when cold and liner is worse when warm, that is what lead me to believe the mechanic .
but that other possibilities could be flywheel/loose torque converter, now im getting really confused and need to find someone in my area that knows as much as all you guys on these forums.

CastleMGBV8 · Post by **CastleMGBV8** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:47 pm

Ojika,

It has been known for a slipped liner to make a noise but it is more like a dull clonk than a rattle.

A faulty cam lifter is possible, sometimes the valve inside the lifter body get a bit of sludge in it and stops the lifter from holding pressure and can be intermittant and makes a loud tapping noise.

Cams can also make a noise as they can move backward and forwards but again this is more like knock than a rattle, if it's a late engine this does not happen as they have cam retainer plates.

I presume the oil pressure is ok? What engine is it, engine number? it's next to the dipstick.

Kevin.

ojika · Post by **ojika** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:59 pm

to me it does sound like a more solid clonk than tappets ive heard before. Seems about the same speed as a tappet rattle but more solid sound. Just had a complete cam kit fitted and its the same.

Oil pressure is fine, never had a water or oil pressure or cross contamination prob .
I cant see the whole engine number , the first number is slightly obscured by the exhaust manifold so could be either :
887D01793A or
687D01793A or
387D01793A

ian.stewart · Post by **ian.stewart** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:11 pm

I could go with a exhaust gasket, I have one letting by at the moment, and it really does sound like its metallic, but its a real pain to change for me, so its staying put until its time to remove the engine.
The other thing could be piston slap, I have a set of omegas fitted and when the engine is hot, it sounds like a bag-o-nails, still goes like stink,

chodjinn · Post by **chodjinn** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:15 pm

Bear in mind any specialists or garages are businesses and would rather sell you a new block for £1500 than a new gasket for a tenner . . .

ojika · Post by **ojika** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:19 pm

very true but, the first one I spoke to, a mate works there and they had nothing to gain because they would not work on it because they dont work on cars with LPG