Shallow sump capacity

[adamnreeves]

I have a shallow sump (you can see it in my avatar!) and took some measurements, although I do not know the dimensions of the standard sump!

These are outside dimensions. Complete depth is 100mm by 195mm wide and 490mm back. The front off the sump has rounded corners and I have calculated this to be aprox 120ml in volume.

so the total volume is 10 * 19.5 * 49 - 120 = 9.44 Litres which is 2.14gals.

Of course the internal volume will be less as these are external measurements but also the sump has trap doors and a horizonal baffle, etc so will probably be a significant lower figure.

Do these figures worry anyone? Does anyone know what the standard capacity is.

[JSF55]

I suppose the easiest way to calculate it would be to fll it to the high mark of the dipstick, assuming u have the correct one? drain and it will give u a good idea of capacity, obviously theres going to be a few ounces short of the total, john

[adamnreeves]

I bought a discover series II dip stick tube and dipstick and it seems to line up with the small hole in the horizontal baffle. I am intending on calculating where the max mark is in the sump and thus the anticipated max capacity.

I have had the sump hot tanked and powder coated (on the outside!). I shall leave the trial volume fill to before I install it for real to double check my calculations.

Incidentally the crankshaft lobe at the front when no 1 is at TDC is quite close the the horizonal baffle, I cannot measure but I am guessing about 125 thous. of course when I have a gasket and goo installed the clearance will be better. I guess though that any clearance no matter how small is okay as the crank should not have any lateral movement and if it does I have major problems anyway!

I suppose the easiest way to calculate it would be to fll it to the high mark of the dipstick, assuming u have the correct one? drain and it will give u a good idea of capacity, obviously theres going to be a few ounces short of the total, john

[JSF55]

I hope somebody else joins in but, i think the oil does quite "wrap" itself around the crank, i know some racers actually fit a scrapper to the bottom of the engine to stop it happening, never got into it at all , i suppose google might add some more info ! john

[adamnreeves]

I can believe that due to it generating its own gravational field!

When I come to fit the sump. Do I use a gasket or just sealant. I have a number of loctite sealants I bought last Xmas (halfords were selling some off), one which is black and supposedly used for sumps. Any tips welcome.

I hope somebody else joins in but, i think the oil does quite "wrap" itself around the crank, i know some racers actually fit a scrapper to the bottom of the engine to stop it happening, never got into it at all , i suppose google might add some more info ! john

[sidecar]

I hope somebody else joins in but, i think the oil does quite "wrap" itself around the crank, i know some racers actually fit a scrapper to the bottom of the engine to stop it happening, never got into it at all , i suppose google might add some more info ! john

Don't know about the sump capacity but the oil sticking to the crank is due to the air around the crank being at a lower pressure than atmospheric. Some bod called Bernuolli worked it out! Don't know whether he had a V8 though!

Regards,

Pete

[adamnreeves]

Oh right, same principles of flight then, faster moving air is lower in pressure.

I hope somebody else joins in but, i think the oil does quite "wrap" itself around the crank, i know some racers actually fit a scrapper to the bottom of the engine to stop it happening, never got into it at all , i suppose google might add some more info ! john

Don't know about the sump capacity but the oil sticking to the crank is due to the air around the crank being at a lower pressure than atmospheric. Some bod called Bernuolli worked it out! Don't know whether he had a V8 though!

Regards,

Pete

[adamnreeves]

took some more measurements regarding the oil pickup and max and min marks on dipstick.

I have calculated that the oil pickup will sit just 4mm of the bottom of the sump, meaning if volume of oil in the sump drops below 380mls then I start taking up air. Sounds feasible?

I have calculated that the min mark on the dip stick represents 3.21litres.
max mark represents 5.09 litres.

Of course the oil in the filter represents something like 300mls I guess.

So my question now is how much oil is circulating the engine when it is running? Do these figures sound okay?

I also noticed that the max mark on the dipstick would take the oil at least 10mm below the horizonal baffle, is this okay? is it safe to increase the maximum?

[katanaman]

My preference is to use a gasket. I don't like using sealer as I have opened up too many engines in the past that were dead due to someone using too much sealer and it clogging the pick-up strainer. It can be used of course but if you do use sealer don't use too much.

[adamnreeves]

My rebuild manual did not mention gasket and gives precise instructions on the bead width at different places on the sump surface. Point taken, gasket ordered. This is applied without gasket dressing?

My preference is to use a gasket. I don't like using sealer as I have opened up too many engines in the past that were dead due to someone using too much sealer and it clogging the pick-up strainer. It can be used of course but if you do use sealer don't use too much.

[katanaman]

I don't honestly know about the later sumps but the earlier ones were cork and used dry. I guess if you can buy a gasket then it must have one. Not difficult to make one either.

Edit.... your instructions aren't for the late serp sump are they? I thought those were alloy so wouldn't need a cork gasket as they are stiffer. The tin sumps are more flexible so need a thicker softer gasket to stop the leaks.

[adamnreeves]

Serp engine but custom fabricated sump not alloy.
You don't happen to know what the usual oil capacity is ?

I don't honestly know about the later sumps but the earlier ones were cork and used dry. I guess if you can buy a gasket then it must have one. Not difficult to make one either.

Edit.... your instructions aren't for the late serp sump are they? I thought those were alloy so wouldn't need a cork gasket as they are stiffer. The tin sumps are more flexible so need a thicker softer gasket to stop the leaks.

[katanaman]

Land Rover manual says 6.6 litres from dry engine it also says that's approximate.
Haynes says 5.6 litres including filter.

Never used a 4x4 sump before so don't know personally.

[adamnreeves]

I am not sure its a 4X4 sump as the person that sold it found it did not clear the cross member. Looking around on the net tonight I think its based on the SD1 sump. With the oil capacity of SD1 sump being 6.6 I think I have the wrong dipstick and tube now. As with the Discovery tube/dipstick it calculates to be 5.12litre. I think that using the SD1 dip stick will have an effective 2cm higher level which equates to an extra 1 litre making it 6.12litres which is more like it. This will either be directly underneath the horizonal baffle or just above it but when engine is running and I think this means 2.5 litres of oil will be circulating so no problem.

I think this sump is suppose to have a similiar capacity to the orignal SD1. The original sump has a bulge at one end and very narrow and flat the other end as you know, whereas this sump is a constant 100mm across the entire length.

Land Rover manual says 6.6 litres from dry engine it also says that's approximate.
Haynes says 5.6 litres including filter.

Never used a 4x4 sump before so don't know personally.

[JSF55]

The easiest way to compare capacities is to fill ur sump full with water, eerr, thats if it's off the car, and fill an sd1 one the same, direct comparrison ! john