Tig welders

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:57 pm

Cant be bothered re-typing it all...check here please..

http://www.petrolheads.co.uk/gassing/to ... 7&f=66&h=0

What do I buy ???

Post by **katanaman** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:20 pm

I would go for the water cooled one as its worth having specially if your welding bigger stuff. Pulse is good too specially in thin alloy, I can weld .5mm alloy with mine no problem. I don't have a foot control on mine and while it could be handy I have never really missed not having it. Apart from that I usually find myself in positions where it would be impossible to use one.

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:24 pm

The water cooling is an optional extra. Until I get proficient enough to be able to do long runs....Im thinking I dont need that yet ??

When my hand starts to get hot, I'll be happy to buy that ??

Does that seem sensible ??

What machine do you use ??

The R-Tech guy does sound like he offers quality product...but the Thermal Arc is also a good price, and a name Ive heard of, and been reccomended...

I still havent seen any Lincoln or Miller machines at sensible prices in the UK though.

Post by **katanaman** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:49 pm

LOL yes that's pretty much what I do when my hand gets hot, good excuse to get the kettle on usually. I thought it came with the r-tech one, I must have misread it.

Mine is a Butters tig, its about 3 years old now and hasn't missed a beat. Took me ages to work out all the right settings but now I have it set-up it does great welds.

Lincoln and Miller are stupid money and to be honest your the same as me as in not welding full time so why pay the money. Probably cost so much because they are heavily advertised on just about every American car/bike building program we get over here.

Only other thing I can think of is make sure it has a standard torch so you can get the ceramics and collets easy. My local BOC stuff fits mine spot on. Oh and an auto tint mask is an absolute must with a tig, I would find it very difficult to use if I didn't have one.

Post by **katanaman** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:54 pm

Just thought of something else. Get a proper flow meter and don't just use a standard regulator. You save a lot of gas with the tig with one of those and get better welds. That along with a twin outlet so you can flood inside pipes with argon and your sorted.

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:57 pm

The R-Tech is 1345 without the water cooled torch, £1750 or so with an 8m water cooled torch.

Other than that, the package is the same. Lots of knobs on the front of it....
Some of the more expensive machines have digital displays....I think they can record settings use for various stuff ??

ALthough knobs are easy to use too.. Im easy either way.

I already have an auto-tint mask for the mig.....I dont know how people weld without them !! lol

Decisions decisions.... The R-Tech is physically bigger and heavier than the Thermal arc, but that isnt a big concern., although potable is nice ( aside from a big bloody gas bottle trailing behind )

The ebay link has a guy selling a couple uf used machines. A Heliarc and a Tigstar ??

No idea what money they will go for.

Post by **katanaman** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:06 pm

I didn't look at that link but have now, never heard of them before. Noticed its that guy that's selling the wildcat rover engine.

HairbearTE · Post by **HairbearTE** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:18 pm

Gav if you get the r-tec tig 201 let me know how you get on with it because i've got one too but havent got round to using it yet due to a workshop tidy-up that mutated into a total workshop rebuild and rewire

seems everytime i start something it mutates.. anyway Rob i think is the guys name at r-tec and he knows his welders as he repairs welders as well as just selling them. The most amazing thing was that when i went to pick up the welder from rob at his house i met a couple of guys accross the road from him who had 3 datsuns of exactly the same model & year as my own. Considering that the DVLA show only 15 or so left at last check by the owners club i thought the coincedence was pretty amazing! Keep an eye out for 'em if you pop down there.

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:48 am

R-tech 201 arrived today.....

Ive had a few goes at sticking the tip to the workpiece

Just stainless for now, as I need to swap my argoshield for argon.
need to sort some sort of proper workbench too.

Any pointers on settings etc for simple 1-2mm stainless would be helpful. gas, amps etc ?? I was trying around 45 amps, which seemed not too bad om some 1 or 1.5mm stainless I had lying about.

How far should the tip protrude from the tig ?? Whats the deal with the ceramic surround ?? There are 3 sizes...

Yes, this is my first time with a tig. Took me a while to figure out how to put the damn torch together !!! And Robert said there was a quick start guide...

Guess he meant quick for someone who knew what they were doing

Post by **katanaman** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:25 am

I have a guide that I will copy for you tomorrow regarding amps,tungsten and ceramic. Tip sticks out no more than 2.5 times the tungsten diameter. Generally the ceramic goes up with the size of tungsten so smallest with 1.6mm and so on but sometimes its handy to use a bigger one as it can flood the weld area with argon better. An example would be when welding pipe together at an angle where its difficult to get the torch in close enough.

Your welds wont be very good with argoshield so don't worry about how they are turning out. They will be loads better when you swap gas.

Dont know if you know about sharpening the tungsten's or not but for steel/stainless (thoriated red tip) you sharpen them like a pencil with the grind marks running to the tip not circular. For aluminium (zirconiated white tip) you do the same then round it off a little. One you start welding on ac you will get a nice smooth round end on it.

Another tip is that you can get universal tungsten's that are ceriated and can be used on ac or dc welding. Don't bother with them, it seems like a way to save money and not having to have so many tungsten's around but they erode at an alarming rate and the arc striking can get to be a pane in the arse meaning you have to sharpen them again.

Regarding welding the tips to the job, bet you didn't know your hand shook so much huh lol. You will soon get used to it and if you don't and you do it will alloy welding its quite spectacular the way the alloy splatters all over the place. Not to mention the mess it makes of the tungsten.

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:34 am

Some of the brief runs didnt turn out too bad. Its getting the arc to strike, was causing me to stick the tip to the workpiece...

You can see the sparks jumping across, but sometimes the weld just doesnt want to start.
Its early days though, I know I was expecting too muchfor it to be easy lol.

I think the tungstens he supplied were 2.4mm....

I assume thinner metal would require thinner tungsten ?? Ive ordered a couple of books that should hpefully shed some light on what needs to happen. I'd like to get some practise this weekend though, and cant see the books being here by then.
I'll wait until Im happy with the stainless before tackling some alu work.

Post by **katanaman** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:46 am

here is a rough idea of tip/current.

Dia. mm Dia. Ins. AC DC
0.25 0.01 ** 25A (Max)
0.5 0.02 ** 15 - 40A
1.0 0.04 25 - 50A 25 - 80A
1.2 3/64 35 - 85A 35 - 120A
1.6 1/16 50 - 120A 50 - 145A "Common size"
2.0 5/64 75 - 150A 90 - 190A
2.4 3/32 100 - 180A 135 - 235A "Common size"
3.2 1/8 60 - 250A 225 - 360A "Common size"
4.0 5/32 200 - 300A 350 - 450A
4.8 3/16 250 - 350A 450 - 550A
6.0 13/64 300 - 400A 550 - 650A
6.4 7/32 350 - 450A 650 - 700A

you will probably only use the 1.6, 2.4 and 3.2. I have generally found that the ratings are a little high and I go over onto a larger wire a bit earlier unless I want a really small weld for some reason like welding headers. Will get the rest to you tomorrow.

Hmmm I cant get this to show the formatting properly as it gets rid of the spaces when I post so I hope you can read it ok.

Post by **katanaman** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:53 am

if you have a high frequency start and the arc isn't striking properly your tungsten is contaminated. If you got the foot peddle try striking the arc with more power then back off when it has lit. You will have to mess around with the power slopes too to suite your welding which will change all the time as you get practice in. A bit pre and post gas is a good idea too specially when you get into the alloy as it saves a hole at the end or your weld.

Eliot · Post by **Eliot** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:20 am

I think you need more than 45a current, crank it up to 100a then work back if your'e melting through your job. (disclaimer - never used an inverter.. YMMV)

You will find that once the tungsten is hot it will strike up much easier. From a cold start i lean the torch over so its almost parrallel with the job and as soon as the arc starts - bring it back up - that will get the tip warm - subseqent starts will be easier and in the normal position.

Ive zipped up the miller tig handbook which will get you started whilst you wait for something better:
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~eliotmez/stevie/

This may explain about how to grind a tungsten:
http://arc-zone.com/pdf/GrindingTungsten.pdf

You must make sure the grind direction is down the tip towards the blunt end - not circular around the tip.

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:52 pm

Thanks guys...

I'll do a bit of reading before I try much more welding... I have a lot to learn !!!