Turning into more than I expected ...

[chodjinn]

I'm starting to realise that restoring the shell I have is a much bigger job than I anticipated. Now I've got all the soundproofing crud and stonechip off I can see how bad things are. There have been some poor repairs to both floors in the past, which apparently worsened the water traps MGBs have ... I now have at least one sill to replace and probably the other (one A pillar completely rotted thru the sill at the point you cannot access without removing the whole thing!), the front and rear of both floors and both boot corners

I'm just wondering if anyone has done this sort of work before (not just on an MG) and what is best to start first, floors, sills etc? I'm a complete amateur and planning to use a mig welder of some description which I'll be purchasing very soon. Please no "it's too much work for you" type of things, I have no choice but to do this myself, I was pretty mortified this wkend when I found the sills were shot! I have a complete shell with decent floors and sills that I can chop about for bits as required, any advice greatly received as usual! (and no I can't use that shell it needs new F&R wings which are a fortune!).

[DaveEFI]

I'd first make sure you can acquire the welding skills needed. It's something which has alluded me - despite plenty practice. And judging by some of the repairs I've seen, I'm not the only one.

[chodjinn]

I'd first make sure you can acquire the welding skills needed. It's something which has alluded me - despite plenty practice. And judging by some of the repairs I've seen, I'm not the only one.

Don't worry about that. Practice makes perfect in my experience, I'm actually looking forward to trying it, it's just the amount that I have to do is a bit daunting! I've got plenty of spare metal scrap and there are plenty of non-visible bits I can practice on before starting the visual stuff like sills etc.

Would just like a bit of guidance on how to approach the overall welding part of the project. Do I do the floors first, or sills etc?

[kiwicar]

Hi
I would recommend the following,
1/ Read about welding techniques for body panels where ever you can, a good start is on carcraft.com for there panel repair articles. There is a technique where you effectivly tack a seam at about 1.5" intivals, hammer the tack welds flat then go back and tack between and hammer, it takes time but gives good results and avoids distorting the panels with heat, it doesn't require huge skill and is the best way to weld thin partially eaten away panels.
2/ Buy some good hammers and panel dolly/anville thingys.
3/ First of all make up some form of body jig to hold the car so it can't move and bolt the suspension pick up points to it. Make sure it is stiff enough to support the car/chassis, not the other way around. . . I beam girder is good! Even better if you can use it to turn the car over but don't sacrifice stiffness. Either way get it off the floor so you can get at it.
4/ make up some door braces that replace the doors, brace across the sill area and hold the openings to shape when you cut the sills and floors out, 1" square tube will do it if you join the hinges to the lock clasp mounting but also run one piece across the bottom and top of the doors.
5/ Brace side to side before you cut the floor out!
6/ Get the right thickness of steel for repairs
7/ Buy a good self darkening welding mask a good one is worth the money (budget at leasy £60).
8/ Get some nice thin-ish welding gauntlets off ebay don't try and weld body pannels in stick welding gauntlets.
9/ Get an old fridge, pull off the outer casing, cut it into bits about 2" wide and 8" long when you can clean it up and weld it together without blowing holes in it you are ready to start on the car .
10/ Try to enjoy it it will be easier that way and you will learn quicker.
Best regards
Mike

[chodjinn]

Mike that's a great response cheers! I've been looking at a Clarke 90-120 type welder, I think that should be good enough for what I need?

[DaveEFI]

I'd first make sure you can acquire the welding skills needed. It's something which has alluded me - despite plenty practice. And judging by some of the repairs I've seen, I'm not the only one.

Don't worry about that. Practice makes perfect in my experience, I'm actually looking forward to trying it, it's just the amount that I have to do is a bit daunting! I've got plenty of spare metal scrap and there are plenty of non-visible bits I can practice on before starting the visual stuff like sills etc.

Would just like a bit of guidance on how to approach the overall welding part of the project. Do I do the floors first, or sills etc?

It's not just a question of making a pretty weld - it has to be strong too. So doesn't matter if it shows or not. And as I said, some won't get the hang of welding thin stuff well no matter how much they practice. And domestic welders make it even harder.

FWIW, I seem to remember reading you do the structural repairs first using jigs to make sure nothing moves. Then move on to the infill stuff.

[kiwicar]

Hi
I have one of those, it works, it is not a subltle or sophisticated tool, but it does the job, stick with thin wire and keep the current low and you should be fine. I found on thicker stuff and high current (in this case over about 4 mm) you were best to weld about 3 or 4 inches then rest the torch for about 5 minutes otherwise things started to smell hot and the wire jammed a lot more. It is fine up to about 2mm all day but it didn't like big stuff for a long time. Keep the wire short (use one of those snippers that you put against the shroud to trim the wire so the gas shield is properly around the work, keep everything clean don't let crud build up under the shroud and use anti splatter spray. As I say practice on thin flat scrap the tack/stitching/hammer technique until you can do good welds using it. remember to test your samples to see you are actually welding the two pieces together and not just sticking blobs of welding wire on. To do that dress the area welded flat with a flap disc and try snapping it in half at the weld line by bending it back and forth it should not follow the line of your weld.
Best regards
Mike

[chodjinn]

I'd first make sure you can acquire the welding skills needed. It's something which has alluded me - despite plenty practice. And judging by some of the repairs I've seen, I'm not the only one.

Don't worry about that. Practice makes perfect in my experience, I'm actually looking forward to trying it, it's just the amount that I have to do is a bit daunting! I've got plenty of spare metal scrap and there are plenty of non-visible bits I can practice on before starting the visual stuff like sills etc.

Would just like a bit of guidance on how to approach the overall welding part of the project. Do I do the floors first, or sills etc?

It's not just a question of making a pretty weld - it has to be strong too. So doesn't matter if it shows or not. And as I said, some won't get the hang of welding thin stuff well no matter how much they practice. And domestic welders make it even harder.

FWIW, I seem to remember reading you do the structural repairs first using jigs to make sure nothing moves. Then move on to the infill stuff.

As far as I can tell I have to replace floors and outer sill only at the moment (depends how it looks when I get the front half of the sills off) so it's not that structural, I'll probably brace the doors and across the shell just to be safe.

[DEVONMAN]

Have you seen the TV programme about rebuilding an MGB by Mark Evans?
Lots of helpful tip on there.

[chodjinn]

Have you seen the TV programme about rebuilding an MGB by Mark Evans?
Lots of helpful tip on there.

I have, it's quite a good series, but then again he had an unlimited budget for it!

[kiwicar]

Have you seen the TV programme about rebuilding an MGB by Mark Evans?
Lots of helpful tip on there.

I have, it's quite a good series, but then again he had an unlimited budget for it!

IMHO one of the better series, especially on the body work front and at least they didn't try and pretend you could do a restoration like that in 3 months! Also they didn't just cheat and buy a new chassis. . . . though toward the end you could see he was swapping out a lot of the stuff he had refurbished and replacing it with new. . but I supose by you have spent that much time and money bit of a shame not to. . . ?
Best regards
Mike

[chodjinn]

Have you seen the TV programme about rebuilding an MGB by Mark Evans?
Lots of helpful tip on there.

I have, it's quite a good series, but then again he had an unlimited budget for it!

IMHO one of the better series, especially on the body work front and at least they didn't try and pretend you could do a restoration like that in 3 months! Also they didn't just cheat and buy a new chassis. . . . though toward the end you could see he was swapping out a lot of the stuff he had refurbished and replacing it with new. . but I supose by you have spent that much time and money bit of a shame not to. . . ?
Best regards
Mike

I really like everything he's done to be honest, a genuine enthusiast who is easy to watch, does most of the work himself. I like Pete Mate as well lol.

[chodjinn]

Had a dig around the shell last night to determine the true extent of the rust problem. Fortunately both castle sections are completely fine, and it's only the front part of both outer sills that need sorting out (from the rear edge of the A pillar froward). On the inside, I need to remove the patchy repairs done on the inner sill and floors previously and re do them properly. Looking at it I shouldbe able to do most of the work using sheet metal ... can anyone advise me on what thickness?!

[kiwicar]

Hi
Generally British Layland used 18 and 20 gauge stock for body and chassis panals, (Austin Maxies used 14 and 12 gauge as far as I can remember! ) they then stamped them so they end up generally a bit thinner but of that order. . . or about the same as the outer casing of a fridge . I would use 20 gauge in preferance, allowing for the raveges of rust and cleaning up the bit of body around the patches before starting I think this will be closest (you want a close match) .
My brother rebuilt his Mk1 sprite with 16 gauge steel used more than 1 8x4 sheet, it made the car very heavy. . . but nearly indistructable!
Best regrads
Mike

[chodjinn]

thanks mike, found a place on ebay I can get cheap 18g from, no joy on the 20g stuff tho ...