Still no oil pressure

[adamnreeves]

I think I have the long crank, long woodruff key. I'll take off my crank pulley when I get home tonight and have a look, good point.

The pump is very simple, it comprises of two rotors, inner and outer, the inner has a slot which fits over the woodruff, this inner then drives the outer with cogs and it forms a void in a shape of a cresent between the the rotors which rotates with the crank and this drives the oil.

The pump does not need priming but I still make sure that it is well oiled after I have taken in apart.

Adam,

As TC said that was one of the points I was trying to make, ie is the rotor actually locating properly on the key and that you actually have the longer type woodruff key.

I am not as familiar with the interim covers as the earllier ones but logic suggeststhat there can only be two or three reasons why the pump is not functioning if everything is installed correctly.

From memory you said you originally had oil pressure but then lost it so something must have changed since the original start up.

So what could have changed or broken?

Is the rotor in one piece as I have seen them break, if its intact is it actually driving the pump gears?

I believe that with the interim cover that as the pump is crank driven then you cannot prime the pump as you would with the distributor driven pump as then the pump would be trying to drive the crank if I'm understanding the design correctly.

If you can't prime the pump as per the earlier front covers then you may not get enough RPM by cranking on the starter motor and you would probably have to fill the pump with vaseline for it to prime, but this would be assuming verything is in working order and doesn't explain the original
loss of oil pressure.

Sorry I can't give you a simple answer to the problem but food for thought hopefully.

Kevin.

[adamnreeves]

Yep I know what you mean. I shall check tonight when I get home.

Adam! I understand it cannot be installed wrong, we mean that the pump does not go over and past the key!

[adamnreeves]

My block is a 46D production 2005 which uses the long crank nose with the long woodruff key (60mm). I have taken the pulley off and installed the bolt on the crank and turned by hand and the oil pump internal rotor does indeed turn with the crank.

[topcatcustom]

My block is a 46D production 2005 which uses the long crank nose with the long woodruff key (60mm). I have taken the pulley off and installed the bolt on the crank and turned by hand and the oil pump internal rotor does indeed turn with the crank.

Cool sorry but thought it was worth a check! Have you taken out the pressure valve and cranked the engine to see if oil comes out the hole? That way it is only- oil up pipe, through pump, out of hole! I rekon if still nothing you may have wrong gasket which covers up oil hole between block and front cover. If you have a gasket for a 4.0/4.6 it is possible that this hole may not be cut out as they use a different pick up pipe which does not flow oil through the gallery in the block as you know... Apart from that I am completely out of ideas!

TC

[adamnreeves]

I'll have to check I can get at the pressure relief valve out with the cover installed again if I can then worthwhile I agree. I do have the right gasket I did check it did not block the internal oil way from the pick-up

My block is a 46D production 2005 which uses the long crank nose with the long woodruff key (60mm). I have taken the pulley off and installed the bolt on the crank and turned by hand and the oil pump internal rotor does indeed turn with the crank.

Cool sorry but thought it was worth a check! Have you taken out the pressure valve and cranked the engine to see if oil comes out the hole? That way it is only- oil up pipe, through pump, out of hole! I rekon if still nothing you may have wrong gasket which covers up oil hole between block and front cover. If you have a gasket for a 4.0/4.6 it is possible that this hole may not be cut out as they use a different pick up pipe which does not flow oil through the gallery in the block as you know... Apart from that I am completely out of ideas!

TC

[adamnreeves]

Back onto the timing cover gasket. Like I say I am pretty sure that the oilways were not blocked up but pretty sure isn't 100% so I called Rimmers today to double check what they supplied me. They tell me they supplied 1995 gasket as I asked for intermediate cover. However they tell me that there are only 2 gaskets, pre-1995 and post 1995. I am confused as I know there are 7 timing covers which fall into 1 of 3 catergories: 1) external oil pump, 2) crank driven oil pump with dizzy and 3) crank driven oil pump without dizzy. Mine is 2). The part they supplied me was a ERR7280P I have also looked back to my invoice for the original gasket which was also ERR7280P. Can someone confirm if this the right or wrong gasket for my purpose.

[TVRleigh]

Back onto the timing cover gasket. Like I say I am pretty sure that the oilways were not blocked up but pretty sure isn't 100% so I called Rimmers today to double check what they supplied me. They tell me they supplied 1995 gasket as I asked for intermediate cover. However they tell me that there are only 2 gaskets, pre-1995 and post 1995. I am confused as I know there are 7 timing covers which fall into 1 of 3 catergories: 1) external oil pump, 2) crank driven oil pump with dizzy and 3) crank driven oil pump without dizzy. Mine is 2). The part they supplied me was a ERR7280P I have also looked back to my invoice for the original gasket which was also ERR7280P. Can someone confirm if this the right or wrong gasket for my purpose.

The gasket for the intermediate and latest covers are the same, as the oil way for the block is capped at the cover end, on the latest cover, so the same gasket can be used.

I know with my engine, with the latest front cover I only get about 0.5 PSI when cranking. so unless you have a very good digital gauge you may not see any pressure just on cranking alone. (this is with the plugs in though, I've not seen what pressure I get without plugs.

one other thing to try is got get a small drill powered pump, connect this to the oil-cooler inlet and to a can of oil, operate the pump with a drill and see if you get pressure and oil out of the rockers.

[seight]

Well, you've got a post 95 block with a pre 95 timing cover so it's anyone's guess!
Post 95 timing cover would be the one that uses the alloy sump I guess where the pickup connects to the cover not the block!
ERR7280 according to a quick Google is for 95> !
I'm getting confused here.
Mike

[adamnreeves]

I'm not the only one then, good.

Well, you've got a post 95 block with a pre 95 timing cover so it's anyone's guess!
Post 95 timing cover would be the one that uses the alloy sump I guess where the pickup connects to the cover not the block!
ERR7280 according to a quick Google is for 95> !
I'm getting confused here.
Mike

[adamnreeves]

Makes sense, I know the timing cover was capped not sure if the gasket followed suit although uncessary but just trying to eliminate it.

Also I am quite possible being too over sensitive about oil pressure before I start the engine, I still do not know if it has trashed it yet ;-(

I like the drill pump attached to the oil cooler idea. I shall explore that.

Thanks.

Back onto the timing cover gasket. Like I say I am pretty sure that the oilways were not blocked up but pretty sure isn't 100% so I called Rimmers today to double check what they supplied me. They tell me they supplied 1995 gasket as I asked for intermediate cover. However they tell me that there are only 2 gaskets, pre-1995 and post 1995. I am confused as I know there are 7 timing covers which fall into 1 of 3 catergories: 1) external oil pump, 2) crank driven oil pump with dizzy and 3) crank driven oil pump without dizzy. Mine is 2). The part they supplied me was a ERR7280P I have also looked back to my invoice for the original gasket which was also ERR7280P. Can someone confirm if this the right or wrong gasket for my purpose.

The gasket for the intermediate and latest covers are the same, as the oil way for the block is capped at the cover end, on the latest cover, so the same gasket can be used.

I know with my engine, with the latest front cover I only get about 0.5 PSI when cranking. so unless you have a very good digital gauge you may not see any pressure just on cranking alone. (this is with the plugs in though, I've not seen what pressure I get without plugs.

one other thing to try is got get a small drill powered pump, connect this to the oil-cooler inlet and to a can of oil, operate the pump with a drill and see if you get pressure and oil out of the rockers.

[topcatcustom]

I am in a similar situation Adam, I am using a '95(?) 4.0 block with an interim cover ('93?) an SD1 type sump, '90 heads..... you get the picture! The problem with picking and using odd parts (which we all do to suit our needs in this engine modifying game!) is that when you go to order gaskets people just can't get their heads around it! Pretty annoying when you ask for this gasket and that other one etc and the person you are ordering it from just wants to know what vehicle it is or something that is completely irrelevant!

Did you manage to get the pressure valve out? If I remember correctly someone on here put a block up for sale a couple of months ago (4.6?) which was top hatted etc the works but they could not get over an oil pressure problem hence the sale. I cant remember any more than that but maybe once in a blue moon there is a funny bit in the block casting or something???

[adamnreeves]

Yep ordering parts for any of the westfield is a nightmare! When I am asked what vehicle depending on my mood, I just say a Westfield S8 and see the confusion on their faces, or I tell them the vehicle for that particular part or sometimes I tell them the whole story and watch the boredom set in !

I havven't tried to get the valve out yet but I have had a look and it looks a bit tricky as there's a chassis cross member closeish but also pipes etc in the way, think I can manage to do it without removing the cover, the hard part might be putting it back, when I am sure will involve mirrors!

I understand what you mean about the block casting but I did blow air through the pickup with the timing cover off and it come out of the front of the block unhindered.

I am in a similar situation Adam, I am using a '95(?) 4.0 block with an interim cover ('93?) an SD1 type sump, '90 heads..... you get the picture! The problem with picking and using odd parts (which we all do to suit our needs in this engine modifying game!) is that when you go to order gaskets people just can't get their heads around it! Pretty annoying when you ask for this gasket and that other one etc and the person you are ordering it from just wants to know what vehicle it is or something that is completely irrelevant!

Did you manage to get the pressure valve out? If I remember correctly someone on here put a block up for sale a couple of months ago (4.6?) which was top hatted etc the works but they could not get over an oil pressure problem hence the sale. I cant remember any more than that but maybe once in a blue moon there is a funny bit in the block casting or something???

[Quagmire]

I am in a similar situation Adam, I am using a '95(?) 4.0 block with an interim cover ('93?) an SD1 type sump, '90 heads..... you get the picture! The problem with picking and using odd parts (which we all do to suit our needs in this engine modifying game!) is that when you go to order gaskets people just can't get their heads around it! Pretty annoying when you ask for this gasket and that other one etc and the person you are ordering it from just wants to know what vehicle it is or something that is completely irrelevant!

I got that when trying to order a clutch plate- they were like "what car is the engine from?" I was like - Well its an SD1 block, Discovery II heads and exhaust manifolds, Range-Rover timing cover and water pump, and a P6 inlet manifold. All sat in a Landrover 90 The poor guys brain almost melted...

[v8alligator]

The block that was up for sale was mine. I had this oil pressure problem with that.

After putting a brand new lump in my range I did spend some time and stripped the engine back to a block for the forth time. I checked the block for machining floors and wear on the bearing fits. I rebuild it again. okay it was a bit easier for me as it was a stock engine so didn't have to worry about using the right gaskets. It used the standard internal oil pump front cover with no dissy drive if that helps. and there are 2 different types of these depending on the age of vehicle. The diffrence is to do with the rating and fit ment of the relief valves. It is almost impossible to spot them apart if you had the two types side by side as they look identical.

The engine still had no oil pressure at low revs and was indeed sold with the fault.

Sorry that I cant spread any more light on this one. The only thing I can do is let you know the engine number on the block as to save some one a lot of time if they stumble across the engine in the future.

Bryan.

[adamnreeves]

Preparing to do more work on this topic this weekend. So I removed the sump and now I have an oil pickup gasket proceeded to undo the bolts. One of the bolts was not completely tight I know I torqued up because I put a white dot on every bolt head I do. Looking through my notes I see I torqued to 10nm. I had used loctite but only the red stuff, i.e. 222 not 243.

Can someone confirm the torque is correct. This time I am using 243! Now lets hope that no permanent damage has occurred. I am hoping that this is the problem of no oil pressure however I had to tug the strainer off the block to break the gasket seal.