have you heard the new F1 cars?

Quagmire · Post by **Quagmire** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:10 am

Correction - youngest car is 30 years old!

crayefish · Post by **crayefish** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:17 am

To be honest, apart from that German prick and Sky ruining it, the biggest issue for me is that they got rid of refueling.

At least with refueling the pitstops were different lengths, people had different strategies and you never knew the outcome until at least the final pitstop (unlike now where it is lap 1!).

Plus the fact that they were running lighter meant the tyres were less shagged so not so much poncing around saving them.

Frankly, I PRAY that some time soon Vettel, Eclestone and Murdock all get caught in some gay Nazi orgy! With Mosley dressed as Hitler filming the whole thing

topcatcustom · Post by **topcatcustom** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:07 pm

Re-fuelling was one of the best things. I'd like to back order a load of old races where they were using the 5l V10's, apart from Schumacher winning every race (like Vettel) it was great watching with the noise and occasional fuelling drama!!

Very un-impressed with yesterdays race, what a shambles, and cars sounded rubbish.

crayefish · Post by **crayefish** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:17 pm

I like the days when THIS was how to overtake...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_Hbuydy9LI

Wouldn't see that now.

chodjinn · Post by **chodjinn** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:51 pm

Refuelling was removed for obvious safety reasons, too many accidents and near misses, someone could have easily died or been horrifically injured.

TC why was it a shambles? Just because the cars don't sound like they used to?! You can hardly expect a perfect race weekend for everybody with the biggest rules changes since the early 80s. Things take time, even in F1. From what the drivers are saying the cars are harder to drive, but in a good way, i.e. controlling the torque out of corners. The rules changes were long overdue, the last 5 seasons have been primarily dominated by a single team, the one with the most money and best engineers. This year is a massive shake up for everyone.

Not least, all of the new rookies were all looking really good this weekend.

crayefish · Post by **crayefish** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:13 pm

chodjinn wrote:Refuelling was removed for obvious safety reasons, too many accidents and near misses, someone could have easily died or been horrifically injured.

Hardly... there was one flame up and they all wear fireproof suits! Being a driver is far more dangerous. Why not ban drivers and have them all do it on the simulator?

Obviously there are risks but this is motorsport! With the money they could easily invest in making the fueling systems safer. That basically killed the watch-ability of F1 since overtaking got more difficult.

chodjinn · Post by **chodjinn** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:04 pm

Safety should always be the primary factor and risk is always minimised. Yes, they wear fire suits but when Massa popped the fuelling rig it slammed the refueller into the ground, sprayed the ferrari with fuel which then caught fire, it could have been much worse. None of the people on the pit wall wear fire suits it could easily have been them sprayed and burnt. The pit lane cameraman dont wear suits either.

There were other reasons too, the cost and issues of shipping the huge fuelling rigs all over the world. The main factor from a technical point of view was engine efficiency, in the 80s they regularly used over 200 litres of fuel in a race, it's half that now.

I watch F1 for the racing, not to see someones race ruined due to some reuelling cockup etc. Not a sigle team was against the idea. If you want to see someone burn watch Backdraft!

crayefish · Post by **crayefish** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:11 pm

Then make the people on the pitwall wear firesuits! Afterall, a car could hit the wall and send fuel spraying out (very unlikely but possible).

The point is it totally ruined the racing (like the new 'safer' dildo-noses ruined the looks) and it wasn't nearly as unsafe as the driving its self. Not even close. In the last 10 years how many people have had serious injuries from fuel burns? How many have in the cockpit?

If they were truly concerned about safety they wouldn't race at places like Monaco.

Frankly the safety obsession also made the sport boring. Yes it shouldn't be too dangerous, but the element of risk makes it fun to watch. If dangerous things such as racing, climbing mountains, base jumping etc were safe, hardly anyone would bother doing it! The old school racing days were very dangerous but people still did it... they just knew the risks and accepted them.

chodjinn · Post by **chodjinn** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:43 pm

Well I respectfully disagree. That accident cost Massa the 2008 championship as he was docked 10 points, while I was happy Hamilton won it shouldn't have been like that. In 2008 alone there were 2 incidents, Massa got off lightly;

BWM Williams;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6i2u7_vLoQ

McLaren being hasty in 2009;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvgjhfQLTNk

Older one of Schuey;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-gtJgoYUPk

And not forgetting Verstappen in 1994, he and several pit crew suffered nasty burns....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2_DfKVTjzA

Fire suits aren't the be all and end all, Niki Lauda is testiment to that.

I can see your point about the excitement and unpredictability but refuelling and fuel strategy also added an undesirable dimension to the races. Montoya qualified 1st in 9 races one year by running super low fuel, but never won. The best driver should be on pole, not the one with the lowest fuel in qually! But arguably as well, the same issues are arising with heavy fuel loads and strategy now, but I would rather it was safer than not.

As for ruining racing, the risk should come from the pure driving and nothing else. 14 good reasons banning refuelling detailed here;

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/12/17/1 ... lling-ban/

Ian Anderson · Post by **Ian Anderson** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:22 pm

And so says the candidate running for the position of the Health and Safety Executive

We probably cannot even fart as the methane could be explosive

Sorry but too many rules have taken the race out of F1

Ian

chodjinn · Post by **chodjinn** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:37 pm

There are a lot of things wrong with F1, but I'm glad they removed refuelling. I enjoy F1 and appreciate the technical progression within the limitations. You can't please everyone all the time.

mgbv8 · Post by **mgbv8** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:53 pm

chodjinn wrote:There are a lot of things wrong with F1, but I'm glad they removed refuelling. I enjoy F1 and appreciate the technical progression within the limitations. You can't please everyone all the time.

Despite me not enjoying the first race etc.. I think the new rules will lead to even more tech development in years to come. At the end of the day I guess the new changes are because the cars were getting too quick !

So the FIA slap on some more restrictions which cost the teams millions and the whole development program starts all over again. But only for those who can afford it eh?

So these engines are now 1.6 litre V6's running 50psi of boost yes?

And from listening to Kobiyashis comment about him locking up and shunting the bloke in front off the track was due to the "fly by wire" braking system?

Do these cars not have a master cylinder connected to a pedal anymore? Is it all electronic now?

I'll still watch F1 and enjoy the forthcoming battles on track this year. But I'll just have to get used to the new engine sound I guess.

Who knows? In 20 years time they may be running on batteries only ??

chodjinn · Post by **chodjinn** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:20 pm

I think kobayashi was just being his normal crazy self! Glad he is back racing!

Yeah braking is now partly electronic.

topcatcustom · Post by **topcatcustom** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:04 pm

It was a shambles because nobody has properly tested the technology, only 2 teams had done a full distance test run before the weekend! Some cars just didn't work, none of the drivers really know how to drive them, and the gross design of the front ends must point to a lot of this being done in a bit of a rush!

I don't want anyone to burn at all, missing re-fuelling in races doesn't make us sadists, it's an exciting thing watching how fast a team of guys can pump 50l of fuel into a car where every 100th of a second counts! And it needn't be expensive, NASCAR use a big bottle with an air line attached!!!

Olly if the best driver was always on pole as you prefer then it would be even more boring, like plenty of Schumacher era races, start on pole, don't even see another car the whole race (Vettel?) At least the less talented drivers starting on pole due to fuel differences creates overtaking and racing as the better drivers further back fight their way up the field. That creates racing rather than paving an easy race.

But anyway, can anybody disagree, the point of this thread- is that the cars do sound gash!

chodjinn · Post by **chodjinn** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:32 pm

Shambles as you say is to be expected. There is a lot of new stuff to deal with. They have the cleverest people on the planet on it, similar thing happened in 2009 when Brawn GP were streets ahead for the first few races. The teams will catch up very quickly, they usually do. With new limitations/rules come new interpretations hence all the mad nose cones etc. A lot of what F1 is about is putting new restrictions to force development and innovation, which is exactly what has happened. A lot of it is about equalisation and making it more about the car and driver over everything else. They can't get everything perfect. I used to whinge quite a lot about F1, but I accept what it is. A truely mental, fluid form of motorsport, in all aspects!