Charge cooling...

[sowen]

I've got my RV8 sat in my car, I've also bought a turbo and am in the process of making the exhaust manifolds to suit. I'm now thinking of how to keep the air intake temps in control, and have realised I won't be able fit an intercooler at the front without cutting away the front panel and making it obvious there's something going on down there...

My mind is now wandering onto water/air chargecooling, I think I can fit a second radiator hidden infront of the engine rad, or even mounted near the boot at the back. I am looking at what size chargecoolers are available, and also at the possibility of fabricating one to fit the limited space I have available.

Does anyone have any advice or links to more information on fitting and sizing them, or have done it and anything to watch out for? The engine is a 3.9, and my plan is to run the twin SU's on a stock manifold like a Montego turbo, I know my way round them and already have them. I'm trying to do this as cheaply as possible, so mild fabrication would be preferred

[JP.]

How about this http://www.aquastealth.com/watermethano ... onkit.aspx
Have it on my supercharged Capri for years with success.

But first you need to know if its needed at all.
I bought myself a simple temperature gauge eBay link
With a voltage step down regulator as the gauge is 5Volt and your car is 12Volt eBay link
If the probe wire is too short, it can be lengthened using any gauge wire you can find.
Now you can monitor intake charge temps. If it stays below 160F there's no real benefit for charge cooling at all. There's lots of documentation about this matter on the web.

So first, monitor your readings to know what's happening and than act to that. If you need cooling the gauge will say so and after that you can monitor the result.

My latest home build project is a Turbo powered Capri with cold air induction and no need for a chargecooler system at all as it sees about 130-135 F max at 8psi. ( Custom build Garrett to engine spec )
Remember, things like an external wastegate will keep intake charges cooler to as less exhaust heat is routed through the turbo.
Things like a turbo beany or turbo blanket will help to.

[sowen]

I have a spare one of those temperature gauges, was going to put it under the air filter on my P6, as that already has one on the inlet plenum so I can see how effective the intercooler is.

The main issue I have is a tiny engine bay, but I guess I should be able to duct some cooler air from the front into the air intake and fit my spare temperature gauge to see what happens first?

[stevieturbo]

How much boost are you expecting to use ?

If low boost, and space really is tight, dont bother with any cooler. Or you could use water or water/methanol injection instead.

Sub 10psi, air temps shouldnt be that bad anyway

In the US, some guys use the cheap Frozenboost water/air chargecooler parts, and they seem to work ok

As with most coolers...bigger is generally better. Although the style they sell do apparently work quite well.
Much better than the barrel style others sell

[daxtojeiro]

If you have the budget get the biggest one you can get in the space available and fit as many radiators as you can possibly fit in any spare space thats left where air flows over it.

I have 4 radiators on mine (one in each corner of the car) a Jag pump and some of that wetter water stuff and it just about keeps it cool.

The air temp out of the blower before the charge cooler (8.5psi) hit 90C when the ambient was 10C!
Out of the charge cooler it got up to around 40C.
OK, this was on a dyno run, so it was flat out for 20 Seconds or so, but even on the road Ive seen 60C from the blower in just a short little blast.

I doubt my engine would have taken 90C air temps, so without the cooler I would have blown another engine up! I also have water injection, but this is simply a secondary setup, not something I would rely on 100%.

thanks
Phil

[sowen]

I'm still thinking about chargecooling, first thing will be an intake temperature gauge to see what's going on in there when it goes on the road, and by that time I'll know exactly how much room I've got to play with.

I know on my Rover P6, the intercooler is hot on the turbo side after a run, and the carb side is cool. Without the intercooler I think I would have destroyed the engine and also had loads of underbonnet heat issues on the fuel side.

[chodjinn]

If you're running the SUs upstream of the turbo in a suck-thru system the fuel really does help to cool intake temps quite well. When I had the twin turbo MG it had about 230-250bhp and no inter/chargecooling at all. But you cannot run an inter/chargecooler with a suck-thru system, the risk of fuel dropping out of suspension in the cooler is too great and that is a major safety issue.

If running blow-thru carb setups chargecooling can be done, depends what your power output aim is. There are cheapo chargecoolers on ebay for about £100, you'd need a second rad as stated and a decent external pump (a good Bosch one is about £100).

I think fitting a temp gauge first is a good move, might save you a lot of work!

[cammmy]

Have you got any space horizontally at the front of the car? You could always mount an air to air charge cooler that way with a small scoop to pick up air flowing under the car.

[sowen]

If you're running the SUs upstream of the turbo in a suck-thru system the fuel really does help to cool intake temps quite well. When I had the twin turbo MG it had about 230-250bhp and no inter/chargecooling at all. But you cannot run an inter/chargecooler with a suck-thru system, the risk of fuel dropping out of suspension in the cooler is too great and that is a major safety issue.

If running blow-thru carb setups chargecooling can be done, depends what your power output aim is. There are cheapo chargecoolers on ebay for about £100, you'd need a second rad as stated and a decent external pump (a good Bosch one is about £100).

I think fitting a temp gauge first is a good move, might save you a lot of work!

It will be blow through, on the standard V8 SU manifold with the carbs adapted to near turbo spec (budget doesn't extend to getting a pair of genuine turbo SU's). I was looking at some of the cheap Ebay coolers, problem is plumbing into the available space and having twin outlets for each carb. I don't know if there are any recommendations for sizing to an engine, or how volume of water/coolant affects it and other aspects of sizing and plumbing?

I'm more or less copying my other turbo'd setup I have on my Rover P6, twin blow through SU's on a custom plenum fed by a Garrett T25 and Ebay intercooler. It works very well, so I want to see if I can make something similar and far more powerful

Have you got any space horizontally at the front of the car? You could always mount an air to air charge cooler that way with a small scoop to pick up air flowing under the car.

Absolutely no space at all for a sensible sized intercooler, I'm not going to cut the body either, I want it 100% sleeper with no clues as to what's hiding under the bonnet without physically opening the bonnet or climbing underneath. This is why I'm looking into chargecooling, as I think I can find space at the back for the second radiator hidden underneath, or across the front if there's enough room once the rad goes in.

[chodjinn]

How did you seal in the SU carbs for forced induction? Engine bay in the P6 looks great though good job.

[sowen]

How did you seal in the SU carbs for forced induction? Engine bay in the P6 looks great though good job.

I used silicone gasket stuff on the dash tops, seems to be holding up alright to about a regular 10psi. Needles, springs and seals are standard Montego turbo, runs a little rich top end under boost but seems to drive fine. The air filter to turbo hose needs to be re-routed over the top of the turbo rather than underneath, I've cut out a bigger chunk of bonnet since I first did the conversion and have the extra space to do so now.

[mgbv8]

If you're running the SUs upstream of the turbo in a suck-thru system the fuel really does help to cool intake temps quite well. When I had the twin turbo MG it had about 230-250bhp and no inter/chargecooling at all. But you cannot run an inter/chargecooler with a suck-thru system, the risk of fuel dropping out of suspension in the cooler is too great and that is a major safety issue.

If running blow-thru carb setups chargecooling can be done, depends what your power output aim is. There are cheapo chargecoolers on ebay for about £100, you'd need a second rad as stated and a decent external pump (a good Bosch one is about £100).

I think fitting a temp gauge first is a good move, might save you a lot of work!

It will be blow through, on the standard V8 SU manifold with the carbs adapted to near turbo spec (budget doesn't extend to getting a pair of genuine turbo SU's). I was looking at some of the cheap Ebay coolers, problem is plumbing into the available space and having twin outlets for each carb. I don't know if there are any recommendations for sizing to an engine, or how volume of water/coolant affects it and other aspects of sizing and plumbing?

I'm more or less copying my other turbo'd setup I have on my Rover P6, twin blow through SU's on a custom plenum fed by a Garrett T25 and Ebay intercooler. It works very well, so I want to see if I can make something similar and far more powerful

Have you got any space horizontally at the front of the car? You could always mount an air to air charge cooler that way with a small scoop to pick up air flowing under the car.

Absolutely no space at all for a sensible sized intercooler, I'm not going to cut the body either, I want it 100% sleeper with no clues as to what's hiding under the bonnet without physically opening the bonnet or climbing underneath. This is why I'm looking into chargecooling, as I think I can find space at the back for the second radiator hidden underneath, or across the front if there's enough room once the rad goes in.

Thats a quite tidy setup my friend

[sowen]

Thats a quite tidy setup my friend

Thanks, it's a 2ltr which made about 170bhp and 200lb/ft at 7psi, factory spec management engine made 200bhp and 170lb/ft at I think 12psi!

I now just want to see what a tame RV8 on twin SU's can be forced to do

[mgbv8]

If its a 3.9 on HIF6 carbs + boost I would think that 200 rwhp could easily be achieved ?

I know I will probably get shot down in flames now!!! But for sprinting you can get very good charge cooling from a wet shot of nitrous into the carbs. You just need to make sure that the fuel pressure for the nitrous is around double the boost pressure. ??

Regards
Perry

[sowen]

Yep, 3.9 on SU's, I'd be happy with 250bhp, over the moon if it cracked the 300bhp mark! I have no idea how that would compare to horsepower at the wheels? It'll be fun finding out!

I'd rather have a permanent almost maintenance free system to keep temps in check so I can just hop in, turn key and go, apart from pouring more go-go juice into the tank!

I'll avoid nitrous, for now