Dizzy problems std dizzy help needed

DEVONMAN · Post by **DEVONMAN** » Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:07 am

The golden rule when chasing a fault is to replace just one item at a time.
So , get the correct coil first.

Regards the ignition module next to the headlight. Is the heat sink mounted with a good earth and paintless mounting surface ?
Have you used plenty of heat transferring compound under the module?

Denis

DEVONMAN · Post by **DEVONMAN** » Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:23 am

Big woof wrote: Tell you what I have found Dennis is two links from the coil to the rest off the car only one seems to carry a live current thourgh it and the other one carrys a live but nothing out off the other side off the link I don't know if that has some thing to do with it. I can't find any information on it.

The link could be the wire that drives the ECU and maybe has a resistor in line with it. This is usually a black/white wire connected to the -ve terminal of the coil.

Big woof · Post by **Big woof** » Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:46 am

Hello Dennis yes I cleaned up every thing on the system for the ignition. The plate that holds the module the coil mounting bracket the panel it mounts to loads off heat compound between the two surfaces. Tell you what I have found Dennis is two links from the coil to the rest off the car only one seems to carry a live current thourgh it and the other one carrys a live but nothing out off the other side off the link I don't know if that has some thing to do with it. I can't find any information on it.
I only thought off the rpi amp as its ment to be more reliable the the std Lucas amps costing me £25 a piece.
The coil is a std cheap item as at the time I couldn't get a Bosch coil which is still working.

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:40 am

Big woof wrote:Hello Dennis yes I cleaned up every thing on the system for the ignition. The plate that holds the module the coil mounting bracket the panel it mounts to loads off heat compound between the two surfaces. Tell you what I have found Dennis is two links from the coil to the rest off the car only one seems to carry a live current thourgh it and the other one carrys a live but nothing out off the other side off the link I don't know if that has some thing to do with it. I can't find any information on it.
I only thought off the rpi amp as its ment to be more reliable the the std Lucas amps costing me £25 a piece.
The coil is a std cheap item as at the time I couldn't get a Bosch coil which is still working.

Did the exact setup you have ever work properly? The ignition amp can give problems, but this usually quickly results in total failure.

I dunno the remote kit you've fitted - but a VR sensor as used in the DLM dizzy is going to be quite fussy about the connection to the amp - especially when cranking, as its output varies with speed, and will be at its smallest when cranking.

As Denis said, throwing lots of new or different parts at a fault isn't the best way to sort it. If a new part makes no difference, go back to the old.

Big woof · Post by **Big woof** » Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:55 am

Hello sidecar I have one problem with Malory systems is that mine is the efi system fitted to mine and I can't find anything for the efi system. I'm thinking along the lines off reliability more then Lucas amps as they seem to last a year and then start giving me problems with the ignition.
In a little bit I am going to go out with a multi meter and check the wiring to the coil that it isn't damaged and giving good continuity. And I need to check one of the fuse able links that are fitted after the coil because I tested one the other day and only one was live at both sides one is live at one side but not the other side. Also both sides off the coil where the spade connectors are connected to the car both sides are live. I would have expected one side to be live and one to be an earth.

sidecar · Post by **sidecar** » Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:15 pm

Big woof wrote:Hello sidecar I have one problem with Malory systems is that mine is the efi system fitted to mine and I can't find anything for the efi system. I'm thinking along the lines off reliability more then Lucas amps as they seem to last a year and then start giving me problems with the ignition.
In a little bit I am going to go out with a multi meter and check the wiring to the coil that it isn't damaged and giving good continuity. And I need to check one of the fuse able links that are fitted after the coil because I tested one the other day and only one was live at both sides one is live at one side but not the other side. Also both sides off the coil where the spade connectors are connected to the car both sides are live. I would have expected one side to be live and one to be an earth.

EFI is not my thing so forgive me for asking but is your ignition system part of your EFI system then?

With regards to replacing the Lucas 'black box' there is a sticky thread on this forum which explains how to change it for a cheap after market amp, you could take a look at that. I also went through a few Lucas units before I gave up on them, I now run a programmable MSD system.

Big woof · Post by **Big woof** » Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:30 pm

Hello sidecar no the ignition system is a seperate system. I have looked at the mega squirt and mega jolt systems. But I can't justify the money that they are asking for the complete kits to fit on.
The Lucas black box is rubbish in all honesty I am looking for a more reliable amp to fit on to it.
Hence the rpi one looked quite good plus with the length off the wires I can locate the amp anywhere in the engine bay to keep the amp cool.

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:35 pm

Big woof wrote:Hello sidecar I have one problem with Malory systems is that mine is the efi system fitted to mine and I can't find anything for the efi system. I'm thinking along the lines off reliability more then Lucas amps as they seem to last a year and then start giving me problems with the ignition.
In a little bit I am going to go out with a multi meter and check the wiring to the coil that it isn't damaged and giving good continuity. And I need to check one of the fuse able links that are fitted after the coil because I tested one the other day and only one was live at both sides one is live at one side but not the other side. Also both sides off the coil where the spade connectors are connected to the car both sides are live. I would have expected one side to be live and one to be an earth.

I ran a Mallory dizzy (Unalite electronic) with my flapper injection on my SDI. The hotwire is similar in that the ignition is stand alone, so only needs a tach pulse from it to the ECU. Same as the flapper. So to clarify, it doesn't really make much difference to the injection what type of ignition is used as the tach pulses needed come from the coil.

With the engine stopped but the ignition on, I would expect to see 12v on both coil terminals. The amplifier will only ground the negative terminal when needed to produce the spark. If it grounded it with the engine not running, it would possibly burn out the coil, if the ignition was left on.

FWIW having had my SD1 from near new, the ignition amps on that, still dizzy mouted, tended to last over 5 years. I changed to EDIs so I could have mapped ignition - not for reliability. And FWIW again, my experiment with the Mallory dizzy was an expensive experiment which I with hindsight wouldn't have bothered with, as there was no difference.

Big woof · Post by **Big woof** » Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:02 pm

I can agree with you there on the mallory systems and the after market edis kits seem to be very very expensive just to produce a spark.
The rpi amp seems to be a good upgrade.
With the ignition system on mine I just think that it wants a right good overhaul with new upgraded components. I am not bothered about making a difference or performance gains from it as there isn't any really only a bigger spark to ignite more fuel into the engine.
I run Bosch super 4 spark plugs In my v8 as they last longer then Ngk plugs plus they give a bigger spark to ignite the fuel.

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:56 pm

Ah - I tried those Bosch Super 4 plugs when I had a dizzy, and found it difficult to start. Probably just a coincidence.

Big woof · Post by **Big woof** » Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:14 pm

No problems starting mine from cold always starts and the running wise it's alright. Mind you though I did spend about an hour gaping every electrode to manufacture specs for the engine.
The Ngk plugs at one point was only lasting around about 2 thousand miles before I was getting a miss fire. Changed to magnecor leads and Bosch plugs and there is no miss fire in 6 thousand miles.
It was what I found is that the Bosch plugs give's a bigger spark and across 4 electrodes.
I am thinking once I sort the ignition module out Clean up a few connections that I have noticed have got mucky and covered in power steering fluid from a leak. Hope fully I should have more then enough ignition power.

sidecar · Post by **sidecar** » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:01 pm

If you just want an easy fix that should be reliable then one of those after market amps mentioned in the sticky thread will do the job, they are about 25 quid I believe. I think that the pickup (coil) in the standard Lucas dizzy is reliable. Other stuff to check would be the bob weight springs and stuff like that. You would want to be running something like 32-34 all in at around 3000 RPM.

Link to the thread...

http://www.v8forum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=78

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:48 pm

If you were only getting 2000 miles out of NGK plugs, something is very wrong. Mine are at more like 25,000 with no hint of a misfire.

Big woof · Post by **Big woof** » Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:45 pm

It was dave mate the ecu was shot and over fueling the engine sorted that out and a few other bits that was either seized or perished. Here's my list.
Ecu (socketed) fuel pressure regulator new coil magnecor leads dizzy base plate with sensor vac advance unit coolent temp sensor tps lamba sensors center replacement pipe in the exhaust ignition module now I am getting 16 mpg around town and 20 mpg on a run at around 90 mph on the motor way.

I leave the Bosch plugs in now as they was new when I fitted them and they had only covered 500 miles before I gapped them. And that was 6 thousand miles ago the Ngk plugs was ruined by too much fuel going thourgh the system the Bosch ones Lapped it up now I have power and economy to boot. Soon as I find out why the ignition modules are failing then I shall be a happy man. Or the coil one off the two I'm hoping that its just a bad batch of modules that had slipped thourgh quality control hope fully

ramon alban · Post by **ramon alban** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:59 am

Hello Michael, If you are using something similar to the ignition system shown in this circuit

then you are able to logically test all the individual components on both the primary and secondary sides of the system from the second of these two essays.

Rover SD1 - V8 Electronic Ignition - Description and Analysis

Rover SD1 - V8 Electronic Ignition - Components and Testing

Scroll down to the paragraph headed:

'Testing the Rover Sd1 V8 Electronic Ignition System'