RV8 black stuff inside, do other V8's go the same?

ratwing · Post by **ratwing** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:31 am

I've had a look and can't find anything but apologies if this has been covered before and I've missed it.
Old high mileage Rover V8 engines get covered in black stuff inside, I'm guessing the black stuff is burnt oil, also guessing that because the Rover sucks a steady stream of fresh air through the engine internals theres always a supply of oxygen to carbonise it.
If this is the case (is it?) would it be better to try and arrange the breathing so that the amount of fresh air flowing through the engine internals is reduced to a minimum?
I'm just wondering after looking in a 57 year old Cadillac V8 which relies on the airflow past a big pipe at the back of the engine to vent it, so a lot of the time there probably isn't any flow through the engine anyway and it looked pretty clean compared to an old Rover.

mgbv8 · Post by **mgbv8** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:54 pm

The black stuff is normally down to lack of oil changes and ingress of dust.

If the engines breathing system is piped properly all air in and out should be filtered.

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:26 pm

The problem is (should be!) only present on the older 14-bolt cylinder head engines, which had tin head gaskets.

The problem is that the head has 5 bolts on one side, and 9 on the other, which gave a slight tilt to the head. Thus all the head gaskets leaked slightly into the valley area. Soot slowly creeped in, and went into the oil. Over time, it stained / gunged everything up, even with regular oil changes!

The slightly leaking head gasket doesn't affect the cooling system as the coolant doesn't pass between block and head at the sides, only the ends.

In theory, the problem is fixed on the later (Range Rover P38 onwards) engines, as they had a symmetrical 10 bolt head fixing, and composite gaskets.

Your 57 caddy engine I suspect has a better head fixing arrangement, and so won't suffer from the same problem, irrespective of breather setup.

Chris.

ppyvabw · Post by **ppyvabw** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:32 pm

Am I correct in thinking that the original Buick 215 had 4 extra head bolts on the inside, opposing the outer-most bolts -- I.E. 9 on both sides? What possessed Rover to remove them?

Post by **katanaman** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:59 pm

I have seen this on Chevy's and Fords alike almost always down to poor maintenance, no oil changes. Typically the engine isn't in very good condition when they are in this state.

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:05 pm

Every old engine I've ever taken apart has had the black stuff inside it.

I recently changed the cam cover casket on my BMW E39 6 cylinder - oil changes on the dot using that awfully expensive BMW spec oil. The inside of the cover was coated in a (thin) layer of black stuff that was near impossible to remove.

DEVONMAN · Post by **DEVONMAN** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:04 am

ppyvabw wrote:Am I correct in thinking that the original Buick 215 had 4 extra head bolts on the inside, opposing the outer-most bolts -- I.E. 9 on both sides? What possessed Rover to remove them?

As far as I Know, the buick 300 heads only have 10 bolts and it's more a case of Rover adding the extra outside bolts and thereby upsetting the even gasket pressure. (Don't know why they did it)

Denis

Muscle-Manta · Post by **Muscle-Manta** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:10 pm

The Buick 215 had 14 bolt heads same as the earlier RV8. The Oldsmobile version of the 215 had 18 bolt heads.

DEVONMAN · Post by **DEVONMAN** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:52 pm

Muscle-Manta wrote:The Buick 215 had 14 bolt heads same as the earlier RV8. The Oldsmobile version of the 215 had 18 bolt heads.

So we can't blame Rover for the 14 bolt design.

teamidris · Post by **teamidris** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:32 pm

Probably as well, with speaking ill of the dead and all that

But I have seen the blokes model beam engine, which has a cylinder made from a landy gearbox bush. (His son lives up the road from me). He got it so spot on it'll run on lung pressure!

I've never figured what the 'conversion' to rover involved, but I guess most of it was inlet manifold for the SU's?

Black gunk seems to be an any-engine fault. It really only comes off after you leave the engine for 3 years to dry out and then start using it again with fresh oil. Mine was so bad it blocked the pickup strainer, but fell off again after being turned off. It took some figuring out that one

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:41 pm

It's going to happen more quickly on an engine used for a lot of short journeys. Motorway only use just delays it somewhat.

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:56 pm

I thought that with the Buick / Oldsmobile versions, one was 18bolt, one was 10bolt, and Rover went for the middle ground!

But I could be wrong on that.

Chris.

bigaldart · Post by **bigaldart** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:29 pm

Buick was 14 just like the Rover, Olds used a different rocker arm set up, the rocker shaft bolts were the inside row of head bolts giving 18 or 6 around each cylinder. A 392 Hemi only used 10 so the ultimate Rover solution can get the job done no problem, after all they ran 100% Nitro and a blower on that set up.

Alan

Robrover · Post by **Robrover** » Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:02 am

My Buick 300 heads have 10 bolts.

Muscle-Manta · Post by **Muscle-Manta** » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:40 am

Buick 300 came after the Buick 215. The 215 had 14 bolt heads