Head problem? Plus a story.

mike-b · Post by **mike-b** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:45 pm

Hi All readers, About two years ago I bought a brand new RV8 3.9 engine. The block was the later version with only 10 bolts for the `heads and the thicker "Webs" in the Valley.
Everything except the `heads where brand new, the heads were a recon job, in hindsight probably a stupid thing to do. Later I fitted the performer & Weber 500, the rods were changed and I am happy with the settings and fuel consumption.
However, last year I noticed a rattle that I put down to being "Tappet Rattle" that I couldn`t get rid of. As the engine had not done above 1500 miles I ignored the cam, fitted new followers, adjustable pushrods, rocker shaft & rockers. The "Rattle" stopped and all seemed well ( so it should after what was probably overkill ).
This weekend I decided to to fit a composite gasket at the inlet manifold, a leak had developed. and the rattle was back again. I know the rattle could have been the air leak but I had already proved the air leak and a screwdriver in my ear proved the tappet rattle.
The tappet problem was only on the nearside head, these were reset after emptying the followers and returning them to the original positions, likewise the pushrods.
Having reset everything a composite gasket was fitted and the inlet manifold replaced.
The problem ( at last ... sorry ) is getting the bolts to line up to the nearside `head, The offside manifold bolts are fine but still loose and still the nearside bolts are a sod to fit.
Keeping in mind that I seem to have a lot of trouble with the nearside head and never the offside one, would it be possible for two different thickness `heads giving me all these problems. Surely if one head is a lot thinner than the other I could have trouble with the inlet manifold bolts lining up on that nearside `head and all the other problems related to that one `head?
A short story I know but I couldn`t explain it any better without it being that way.
You may be able to guess where I got the engine! Thanks guys ... Mike

topcatcustom · Post by **topcatcustom** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:24 pm

You could use a vernier caliper to measure the thickness of the heads- for comparison in situ, at the ends there are milled surfaces on the top side which you can use as reference points to measure down to the face- if you see what I mean?

mike-b · Post by **mike-b** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:35 pm

Hi TC,
Thanks for that ....... sounds good it will at the very least prove a point.
What I can`t get my brain round to is why I have constant trouble all related to just the one `head and never the other. As I have no trouble with the other `head what work I do on it is never different to the other `head that keeps giving me problems. Logic tells me the `heads MUST be different ....... somewhere.
Many thanks .... Mike

mike-b · Post by **mike-b** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:07 pm

Hi TC,
Have done what you suggested the O/side ( the good one ) is 63.91mm and the pain in the ass one is 60.73mm ... almost 3mm & 3mm = 1/8 inch! No wonder the inlet manifold bolts seem a sod to to get lined-up as their bolt holes must also be 3mm lower.
Its starting to look like I need a matched pair of heads.

DEVONMAN · Post by **DEVONMAN** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:33 pm

mike-b wrote:Hi TC,
Have done what you suggested the O/side ( the good one ) is 63.91mm and the pain in the ass one is 60.73mm ... almost 3mm & 3mm = 1/8 inch! No wonder the inlet manifold bolts seem a sod to to get lined-up as their bolt holes must also be 3mm lower.
Its starting to look like I need a matched pair of heads.

The 63.91mm head would be close to standard thickness for a head intended for use with a tin head gasket. The 60.73 head has been drastically refaced at some time.
It would be worth checking the casting numbers against the stickey on here.

Regards
Denis

topcatcustom · Post by **topcatcustom** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:16 am

Thats a hell of a difference! If you take them off you should be able to see the difference in combustion chambers, which will also mean half the engine will be running about 11:1 and the other half closer to 9:1

I've not heard of anyone skimming a head by that much...

mgbv8 · Post by **mgbv8** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:10 am

Maybe someone cocked up and skimmed the same head twice !!

mike-b · Post by **mike-b** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:38 am

Hi TC,
I didn`t have the heads skimmed - they are the original ones that were fitted when the engine was purchased. The block was brand new with recon heads and are still bolted to the engine.
My problem was at the time of purchase I was greener than grass - you learn a lot on this forum - I now realise I was dealing with a company that does a lot of yapping about everybody else but can`t do a half decent job themselves !!!
I of course will never return any custom and tell everyone else to do the same.
After the measurement its plainly obvious where the problem is.
It seems Paul at V8 tuner is going to get some custom, I`ve never had cause for concern from him.
Cheers mike.

mgbv8 · Post by **mgbv8** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:07 pm

Despite the lenght of time since purchase I would still be writing to the engine builder to let him know that you now know that what you bought was no good.

I would give a brief explanation of the problems you have experienced and the fault you have found. (Its not your fault that the engine was in storage for a long time before you finally fitted it and did a few miles is it?)

I would explain that you sought advice on here and found the answer to your problem. I would then politely ask if they would give you another head in exchange for the one you purchased from them.
Make sure you tell them that if they check their records they will see that the head you intend to return to them has the same serial number as the one which should be in their records. (which it probably wont be)

If they say NO then send them a "without prejudice" letter explaining that you have attempted to resolve the problem by telling them about the faulty goods. Explain in the letter that you have requested that the faulty goods be exchanged for the correct item. Also explain that you appreciate the fact that any 12 month warrenty may have expired, but that the goods sat in your own storage until after the equipment was first put to work, which is when you discovered the fault with the equipment.

However, just having “Without Prejudice” on a communication is not sufficient for this rule to apply. There are two elements that must be present. Firstly, there must be a dispute. Legal proceedings need not have commenced for ‘Without Prejudice’ to apply, there need only be a case that could result in litigation, if settlement is not reached. Secondly the content of the communication must be a genuine attempt to settle the dispute.

If their reply to the letter is still "get stuffed" then you have every right to let them know that you intend to inform others of the problems you have experienced with this company as you will be naming them on internet forums.

See what response you get from them before you go any further !!

At the end of the day you bought an engine which was not built correctly.

Any company with an ounce of sense will replace the faulty head. Its not as if they cost much is it??

Muscle-Manta · Post by **Muscle-Manta** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:01 am

Mike, Did you buy your engine from a place near Norwich? Just asking as I bought a short engine from him around 12 years ago. It sat in storage for around 18 months before I decided to build it up. I discovered a deep mark on one of the block faces right up to the liner on one cylinder which wasn't down to me. I contacted proprietor hoping he would believe me that the damage wasn't my fault. He was very good which surprised me. I took the block back to him and he had it decked and fly cut the pistons to prevent any problems with valve to piston clearance all at no cost.

POAH · Post by **POAH** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:20 pm

you have 6 years from purchase to make a claim. however you would have to prove the fault.

mike-b · Post by **mike-b** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:33 pm

Hi all,
Your answer "Muscle-Manter" is YES..
At this end a ordered pair of `heads on Monday 13.15 hours from Paul at "V8Tuner" arrived today - Wednesday - at 12.10. These `heads look fine, with valves and springs and some porting. I will fit them this weekend and post a reply here on Monday next.

As for the legalities of the situation ( you crafty sod .... LOL ) I agree, however it could cost me money just to go through that slow but nevertheless working system and that would make matters worse regarding cash flow but at least it would also hit them too, I could also be waiting weeks or months just to get something done .... and done begrudgingly.
If they couldn`t do the job properly the first time ..... I shouldn`t have to use the legal system to get it sorted. They have lost custom from me and others from what I`ve read on this forum.
Nevertheless I thank you for your advise on that subject.
I will post the result of these later purchased `heads on Monday so watch this space.
Thank you one and all, Mike ( mike-b )

mike-b · Post by **mike-b** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:02 pm

Hi All post followers,

The update at last.

Fitted the recon `heads from Paul at "V8tuner", managed to set the preload without any hassle ( had loads before ) and rebuilt upwards.
Coolant, oil & filter changed.
Everything working fine, temps & pressures as they should be and not even a sign of a rattle.
Took the old lad ( "Harry" ) out for a quick spin ........ different engine altogether ... a result at last.
Many thanks guys for all your help. Mike.