The whole car's being caged, so rigidity won't be an issue.topcatcustom wrote:Just a thought- would you not be best using thin steel instead of aluminium, and spot welding it to the face much like the original? That way it will be slightly more rigid- and may reduce any flex as it looks like that cross member ties the front turrets together. Weight difference will not be worth considering as it's only a small piece!
Audi B5 420-R: The Build
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2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
I have researched before removing the panel. It's not an issue - the most that could occur is I may have to provide the cut-off piece. Or have the VIN section welded elsewhere. The car MAY then need to be inspected.kiwicar wrote:The more I look at this the more it looks a very bad idea! as a general rule VIN numbers are put on bits of chassis that the car cannot easily do without, the idea is to make it difficult and expensive to change the identity of a car by cutting out the VIN number from one car and transfering it to another. By implication if it has the VIN number on it a panel is required.
Best regards
Mike
Once that's done, there won't be any more issues. I've been down to VOSA in Chelmsford, and have covered all the basics.
2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
I have gained plenty of room, it's the space ABOVE the spot welds that is required, not the spot weld area itself.chodjinn wrote:I don't get why you have removed it, doesn't look like you've gained any room at all looking at the position of the spot welds?
2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
The VIN plate (the riveted one) as well as the welded one are both being relocated, where both can be viewed with the engine in place.kiwicar wrote:
Hi Looking at this in the light of what Tom has just pointed out I would have a bit of a review of the whole area, when the bonnet is closed the upper half of that pannel forms a box section with the underside of the bonnet with it closed. If you look at the underside of the bonnet there is an internal panel that has a lip folded to the rear, the panel has a lip turned forward, I bet in a prang to the front of the car that pushes the bonnet backward the pannels are intended to lock together. . .I would certainly satisfy myself that this was not the case before I proceeded any further).
I think it would be wise to get an engineers report on what you have just done and on what you plan to replace this with, it looks very structural I would certainly consider carefully how you are giong to put back the strength into that area.
As regards the VIN plate, it should have a duplicate on the chassis somewhere, I would make sure it can be accessed quickly.
Best regards
Mike
The riveted plate was only used on the Audi A4 B5 up till September 1996, when it became a sticker thereafter, that couldn't be removed without destroying it.
Please read my previous posts - the car is being caged, and the front turrets are being tied to the cage forward section, that are coming through into the scuttle area. It will be much, much stronger than the thin piece of steel I removed.
2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
I'm ahead of you there buddy - I cut the original panel over the weekend, by following the adhesive marks on the rear of the secondary firewall.r2d2hp wrote:Could you not just use the cardboard template and mark on the piece you have removed. Cut it outs and spot weld back in and add the vin into it at the same time
The only reason I took this route, was because my fabricators don't keep sheet metal in stock, so it would have taken time in terms of me getting the materials for them to work with.
I won't add the VIN to this panel though - as it'll be almost impossible to view it with the S8 motor sitting in the bay.
2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
righto cheers! Keep the updates comingNollywood wrote:I have gained plenty of room, it's the space ABOVE the spot welds that is required, not the spot weld area itself.chodjinn wrote:I don't get why you have removed it, doesn't look like you've gained any room at all looking at the position of the spot welds?
Are you having to cut a tunnel or does the A4 shell come ready for 4wd? My days got an x plate a4 he's on about passing on ...
RIP MGB V8 .... served me well as a learning curve.
R32 Skyline V8 .... this one is gonna be a monster!
R32 Skyline V8 .... this one is gonna be a monster!
This is an A4 Quattro, it's factory 4WD. So no cutting the floorpan to graft in a tunned.chodjinn wrote:righto cheers! Keep the updates comingNollywood wrote:I have gained plenty of room, it's the space ABOVE the spot welds that is required, not the spot weld area itself.chodjinn wrote:I don't get why you have removed it, doesn't look like you've gained any room at all looking at the position of the spot welds?
Are you having to cut a tunnel or does the A4 shell come ready for 4wd? My days got an x plate a4 he's on about passing on ...
2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
Update 18th December 2012:
As posted earlier, this 4,2 V8 motor is being pared with an 01E 6-speed manual, from a 2001 Audi S4.
Now, my A4 Quattro originally ran an 01A 5-speed manual. Although installing the 6-speed presents very problems, the output flanges will not mate up to the Audi A4 Quattro's driveshafts. The reason is simple - size. 108mm versus 100mm. All petrol-engined A4 Quattro with manual transmission run 100mm inner CV joints, while front-wheel drive models run 108mm.
The Audi S4 also runs 108mm inner CV joints, hence its 6-speed manual has matching output flanges. My options are:
* Buy Audi S4 driveshafts with 108mm inner CV joints.
* Buy Audi A4 FWD driveshafts with 108mm inner CV joints.
* But Audi A4 Quattro rear differential 100mm output flanges.
I went for the third option.
Audi A4 Quattro rear differential output flanges are 100mm, but the important parts that matter (the splined shafts that go into the differential) are the same dimensions as the 108mm items. So Good old eBay came to the rescue, and I purchased a pair. As I already knew, they were a perfect fit. The only differences are the central bolts that hold them in place. The bolt for the 108mm flanges are too short. So a quick call to Ipswich Audi soon had a pair of the longer bolts winging their way to me, they should be with me before the end of the week.
Once they're here, I can bolt the flanges in place. Pictures below:
Replacement 100mm gearbox output flanges, to match Audi A4 Quattro 100mm inner CV joints:
And compared to the outgoing Audi S4 108mm items:
As posted earlier, this 4,2 V8 motor is being pared with an 01E 6-speed manual, from a 2001 Audi S4.
Now, my A4 Quattro originally ran an 01A 5-speed manual. Although installing the 6-speed presents very problems, the output flanges will not mate up to the Audi A4 Quattro's driveshafts. The reason is simple - size. 108mm versus 100mm. All petrol-engined A4 Quattro with manual transmission run 100mm inner CV joints, while front-wheel drive models run 108mm.
The Audi S4 also runs 108mm inner CV joints, hence its 6-speed manual has matching output flanges. My options are:
* Buy Audi S4 driveshafts with 108mm inner CV joints.
* Buy Audi A4 FWD driveshafts with 108mm inner CV joints.
* But Audi A4 Quattro rear differential 100mm output flanges.
I went for the third option.
Audi A4 Quattro rear differential output flanges are 100mm, but the important parts that matter (the splined shafts that go into the differential) are the same dimensions as the 108mm items. So Good old eBay came to the rescue, and I purchased a pair. As I already knew, they were a perfect fit. The only differences are the central bolts that hold them in place. The bolt for the 108mm flanges are too short. So a quick call to Ipswich Audi soon had a pair of the longer bolts winging their way to me, they should be with me before the end of the week.
Once they're here, I can bolt the flanges in place. Pictures below:
Replacement 100mm gearbox output flanges, to match Audi A4 Quattro 100mm inner CV joints:
And compared to the outgoing Audi S4 108mm items:
2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
Update 18th December 2012:
Again, as previously posted, after removing the secondary firewall to create room for a large snail at the rear of the engine, I was left with a hollow box section. Now I originally planned to have an aluminium plate cut to cover this recess (I had a cardboard template as a pattern).
After some thought, I had a change of plan. The original secondary firewall was the ideal donor for the steel strip. I didn't even need to use the cardboard template. Where it was spot welded to the box section, there was an ovbious trace, left by the bonding agent. It was a simple procedure to use an electric jigsaw to carefully cut the shape out, and it's a perfect fit. I ordered a mig welder, so will be spot welding the panel in place. Then it's a question of preparing the whole engine bay, painting it gloss black, then the engine and gearbox can be installed. I aim to get it all in this side of Christmas.
Picture below showing the steel panel cut out of the original secondary firewall:
Again, as previously posted, after removing the secondary firewall to create room for a large snail at the rear of the engine, I was left with a hollow box section. Now I originally planned to have an aluminium plate cut to cover this recess (I had a cardboard template as a pattern).
After some thought, I had a change of plan. The original secondary firewall was the ideal donor for the steel strip. I didn't even need to use the cardboard template. Where it was spot welded to the box section, there was an ovbious trace, left by the bonding agent. It was a simple procedure to use an electric jigsaw to carefully cut the shape out, and it's a perfect fit. I ordered a mig welder, so will be spot welding the panel in place. Then it's a question of preparing the whole engine bay, painting it gloss black, then the engine and gearbox can be installed. I aim to get it all in this side of Christmas.
Picture below showing the steel panel cut out of the original secondary firewall:
2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
Update 23rd December 2012:
Today, I was able to complete welding steel plate over the hollow box section, left after removing the secondary firewall. Turned out pretty good - I welded through the holes left after drilling out the spot welds. I actually started yesterday. All I had to do today, was apply a skim of Bondo, and sand it down.
I started with 60 grit, followed by 80, 120 200, 500, 1000 then finally 1200 fine. This is the rear of the engine bay, which will be mostly obscured by the big V8 motor, so I didn't bother going as fine as 2500 wet and dry. I applied a quick coat of grey primer and called it a day.
Tomorroy, I'll prep the rest of the engine bay, prime the lot, then apply three coats of gloss black. Then the engine and trans can be installed. Pictures of the engine bay:
Today, I was able to complete welding steel plate over the hollow box section, left after removing the secondary firewall. Turned out pretty good - I welded through the holes left after drilling out the spot welds. I actually started yesterday. All I had to do today, was apply a skim of Bondo, and sand it down.
I started with 60 grit, followed by 80, 120 200, 500, 1000 then finally 1200 fine. This is the rear of the engine bay, which will be mostly obscured by the big V8 motor, so I didn't bother going as fine as 2500 wet and dry. I applied a quick coat of grey primer and called it a day.
Tomorroy, I'll prep the rest of the engine bay, prime the lot, then apply three coats of gloss black. Then the engine and trans can be installed. Pictures of the engine bay:
2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
Update 24th December 2012:
An early start, and I was able to finish the engine bay. I laid down two coats of grey primer, and three coats of gloss black. The V8 motor and 01E 6-speed manual can now be installed. Not till after Christmas though, but definitely before the clocks herald the start of the year 2013
Pictures!
An early start, and I was able to finish the engine bay. I laid down two coats of grey primer, and three coats of gloss black. The V8 motor and 01E 6-speed manual can now be installed. Not till after Christmas though, but definitely before the clocks herald the start of the year 2013
Pictures!
2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
Update 26th December 2012:
As the 01E 6-speed manual shifter is very different to that of the 01A 5-speed, the gear selector needed to be replaced. I removed the 5-speed item, and replaced it with the new 6-speed shifter.
The 01E 6-speed is also longer than the 01A 5-speed, so the 6-speed propshaft is correspondingly shorter. I removed the old one, though one of the 6mm hex bolts was pretty chewed up, and it took me close to an hour to remove it. I ended up hammering a 12-point 12mm socket onto it, and was able to remove it that way.
The delay however meant I ran out of time, so was unable to install the engine and trans. They'll definitely be in place tomorrow, as long as there are no other set-backs!
Picture showing the 01A 5-speed manual shifter:
Picture showing the 01E 6-speed manual shifter:
Pictures showing the 01A 5-speed manual versus 01E 6-speed manual shifters:
Pictures showing the 01A 5-speed manual propshaft versus the 01E 6-speed item. (6-speed item is the one pictured on the left and lower of both pictures respectively).
As the 01E 6-speed manual shifter is very different to that of the 01A 5-speed, the gear selector needed to be replaced. I removed the 5-speed item, and replaced it with the new 6-speed shifter.
The 01E 6-speed is also longer than the 01A 5-speed, so the 6-speed propshaft is correspondingly shorter. I removed the old one, though one of the 6mm hex bolts was pretty chewed up, and it took me close to an hour to remove it. I ended up hammering a 12-point 12mm socket onto it, and was able to remove it that way.
The delay however meant I ran out of time, so was unable to install the engine and trans. They'll definitely be in place tomorrow, as long as there are no other set-backs!
Picture showing the 01A 5-speed manual shifter:
Picture showing the 01E 6-speed manual shifter:
Pictures showing the 01A 5-speed manual versus 01E 6-speed manual shifters:
Pictures showing the 01A 5-speed manual propshaft versus the 01E 6-speed item. (6-speed item is the one pictured on the left and lower of both pictures respectively).
2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
Update 27th December 2012:
Engine and transmission are in!
I had more issues - the tarmac in front of my garage is slightly soft. The V8 engine and 6-speed manual tranny weigh in at a combined 293 kilos. This meant the steel wheels of the crane were digging into the ground at the front. So lots of levering, and I managed to get a board under the worse affected wheel.
Tomorrow, I'll be making wooden mock-ups of the engine support brackets (one at the front, one either side) to transfer to steel. I can now begin to run my custom stainless steel braided oil lines. I also need to modify the front panel / radiator support.
Pictures:
Engine and transmission are in!
I had more issues - the tarmac in front of my garage is slightly soft. The V8 engine and 6-speed manual tranny weigh in at a combined 293 kilos. This meant the steel wheels of the crane were digging into the ground at the front. So lots of levering, and I managed to get a board under the worse affected wheel.
Tomorrow, I'll be making wooden mock-ups of the engine support brackets (one at the front, one either side) to transfer to steel. I can now begin to run my custom stainless steel braided oil lines. I also need to modify the front panel / radiator support.
Pictures:
2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
Update 02nd January 2013:
I took time off to modify the lock / radiator carrier, to clear the big V8 motor. I then trial fitted the aluminium radiator. It fit perfectly, though I'm going to reverse the coolant hoses, as the radiator outlets are on the left of the engine bay.
The lock carrier is only fitted temporarily, with two bolts. It will be removed to ease running the oil filter / cooler lines. I have another Audi A4 being delivered to me on Monday, which I will plunder for some parts I need.
Pictures:
I took time off to modify the lock / radiator carrier, to clear the big V8 motor. I then trial fitted the aluminium radiator. It fit perfectly, though I'm going to reverse the coolant hoses, as the radiator outlets are on the left of the engine bay.
The lock carrier is only fitted temporarily, with two bolts. It will be removed to ease running the oil filter / cooler lines. I have another Audi A4 being delivered to me on Monday, which I will plunder for some parts I need.
Pictures:
2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.
