Bike Throttle Bodies or new ECU? Ok New MS2 ECU it Is Then.

Post by **Coops** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:36 pm

you have every thing dont you regarding the MS

and thanks for the comment, had to make it as neat as poss as always on show, my son is doing a clear perspex cover for it in his science project at school. so it doesn't get damaged with people in and out of the car as its in the passengers footwell.

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:38 pm

Coops the PIKEY wrote:Does anyone know if the bosch green motorsport injectors are high or low impedence?

They should be high. But if unsure, just measure with a multimeter

daxtojeiro · Post by **daxtojeiro** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:46 pm

Coops the PIKEY wrote:you have every thing dont you regarding the MS

Been doing it for a while now, must get a life

Phil

kokkolanpoika · Post by **kokkolanpoika** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:58 pm

daxtojeiro wrote:Did you ever fit the blower, if so what pressure did you end up out of it? My old SN92 gave around 8psi on my 3.5, that was an upgraded version.

With ITBs you will lose torque at the lower/mid revs but gain some BHP at higher revs. I wouldnt think you'd gain that much over a twin plenum setup to be honest.

ECU shouldnt be an issue either, although it is time you went over to a genuine MS rather than a copy

If you haven't fitted the blower yet then why not??? Get on with it!

Phil

Nonsense..

In my own experience of dynotuning my 5.2l stage 4 rover v8 engine.
First i run with siamesed plenum + haltech engine magnament + msd adjustable dizzy. Dyno curve start to approx 2000rpm up to 6000rpm @ 2500rpm it has got approx 435Nm and max torque 3200 or 3450rpm is 520Nm and approx 5500rpm +470Nm, dont remember.

I replace this siamesed plenum with Jenvey 48mm throttle bodies, witch is quite big in someone´s mind. and same bench it will give 450Nm@ 2500rpm 543Nm @3910rpm and + 5500rpm approx near 500Nm dont remember.

And torque graph is better/stable up to hole rev range.. and top end power is only 100rpm higher with ITB`s +40hp..

Maxium torque is only 500rpm higher, but with ITB´s it will push 15-20Nm more with 3000- 4000rpm vs plenum.

And i can prove all this.

Rover original plenum is quite resistive even if it is twin or big single. because the shape of the plenum is not so smooth as ACT or JE twin or triple..

Wotland · Post by **Wotland** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:01 am

IMHO you can spend all money of the world in induction side, engine management, etc..... as long you don't have a good pair of heads you lost your money.

NA high power engines have aggressive cams with high lift. Unfortunately RV8 heads suffer from poor high lift flow figures.

Big valves help low lift flow figures, but high lift flow figures is more a question of porting job.

Post by **katanaman** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:26 pm

Get it on a rolling road and find out what is happening. I don't see the point in swapping expensive parts around until you find out what needs swapped. Maybe something is going on with the engine itself as opposed to the kit that feeds it? Either way a good rolling road session should point you in the right direction if not actually liberate the lost power.

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:13 pm

katanaman wrote:Get it on a rolling road and find out what is happening. I don't see the point in swapping expensive parts around until you find out what needs swapped. Maybe something is going on with the engine itself as opposed to the kit that feeds it? Either way a good rolling road session should point you in the right direction if not actually liberate the lost power.

But some simple checks before going near rollers also makes sense.

ie compression, lifter pre-load, plugs, ignition timing. Ensure the engine is healthy before contemplating rollers.

And I still say that changing the ecu is not going to make any significant difference. It may help you in other areas if it is easier to use or something, but it is highly unlikely to be an actual problem.
Unless there is either an actual problem with it, or simply a mapping problem.

Post by **Coops** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:47 pm

right:
took the car for a spin today to try and do the WOT reading as suggested by eliot,
notice i said try

drove to the garage to put fuel in, came back out to fire her up to go do the testing, and no go, fired a couple of times on a few cylinders, popped and banged a few times and stank of fuel, then just turned over.
called AA out and towed her home

removed the plugs all soaked in fuel,
dried the plugs tried again popped and banged again stank of fuel, and turned over.
uploaded the ecu file from the laptop again and it fired up second crank, and ran as normal WTF is going on?
had this last year after the car was laid up with the battery removed, when we reconnected the battery it did the exact same thing.

SO im slowly thinking i still have problems with this ecu that has not been sorted yet

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:54 pm

Is that sort of problem common on VEMS ?

Seems odd it drove to the garage and then the problem occurred ?

Is there any datalogging on board you saved that indicated a problem ?

Post by **Coops** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:06 pm

dont know if its a common fault mate as when it happen before a couple of times i was told it maybe a wiring fault on my side, but they supplied the loom,
so i rewired the ecu loom myself and then last winter it happened again, and in june when the car had a flat battery after the lights got left on. and today, but today was the first time it has done it from driving somewhere parking up and trying to start it again,

the power loom etc from the car to the ecu was the same loom that was wired in to power the flapper and the hotwire setups before hand that were both faultless, so im not thinking its a vehicle wiring related fault.

what worries me is why the whole ecu settings seem to get wiped or mixed up, leading to a complete upload again.

no datalog as was going to collect the laptop on the way back past the house.

maybe my ecu i have here is the runt of the litter, i know both dnb and monty man have said the board is a mess where its been worked on and repaired a few times,

daxtojeiro · Post by **daxtojeiro** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:19 pm

Whilst I totally agree with everyone, your initial issue wasn't the ECU, I've just built you a nice shiney new MS2

The problem you have with the ECU is likely to be noise spiking the ECU.
Do you have all the ECU grounds connected to the engine block?
Do you have resistive spark plugs?
Do you have a 10-20uF cap across the 12V feed to the coils down to the engine block?

All these are needed when you fit any aftermarket ECU, as noise can cause all sorts of nasty issues.

Ensure you do the above when fitting your lovely, new, shiney, wonderful, brilliant, MS ECU I've just made for you

cheers
Phil

Post by **Coops** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:28 pm

daxtojeiro wrote:Whilst I totally agree with everyone, your initial issue wasn't the ECU, I've just built you a nice shiney new MS2

The problem you have with the ECU is likely to be noise spiking the ECU.
Do you have all the ECU grounds connected to the engine block?
Do you have resistive spark plugs?
Do you have a 10-20uF cap across the 12V feed to the coils down to the engine block?

All these are needed when you fit any aftermarket ECU, as noise can cause all sorts of nasty issues.

Ensure you do the above when fitting your lovely, new, shiney, wonderful, brilliant, MS ECU I've just made for you

cheers
Phil

OOOOOO have you, thank you Phil

regarding the above,
yes grounds to the back of the n/s head where the flapper ecu earthing point stud was, (or mine was any hows),
yup resistive plugs,
had this problem before running wasted spark to,
and no not got a cap on the coil as was not aware i needed it on the vems

where do i get these from? and i gather two will be needed?

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:49 pm

Ive fitted aftermarket ecu's to many cars, and never fitted any capacitors.

I can only assume it is an MS specific thing, as I have seen it on their diagrams for LS coils.
But certainly not needed on any ecu Ive ever used.

daxtojeiro · Post by **daxtojeiro** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:27 pm

Hi Steve,
Its not an MS specific part, the caps are standard fitment to every OEM engine I've ever looked at where the ECU drives the coils directly.
They dont fit them for no reason as far as I know

I have some spare, I will throw a pair in for you. I doubt its the issue, but can't be too safe in my opinion,

Phil

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:36 pm

Perhaps, but Ive never seen them fitted to any modern car.

The last car I seen with one fitted, was my 1998 Volvo that still used a dizzy and single coil.

Ive never seen a modern engine with them.