eddy 500 running rich

[shawser]

Hi guys, my rover 3.5 v8 has the eddy 500 carb, i noticed it started popping as revs increased, took out plugs, all covered in black soot. Whats the best way to adjust for leaner mix? cheers

[sidecar]

If the carb is setup as standard then you could try changing the rods for 67-55's. Change the rod springs for silver ones, change the secondary jets for 83's. The primaries should be 86. (The standard ones).

I wrote a load of stuff on these carbs ages ago, I have learnt a few more things since writing the stuff in the link below (Like the fact that the 4.6 lump does not really want the same settings as the 3.5).

http://how-to-build-a-pilgrim-sumo.wiki ... ing-system

In the article above I seem to be recomending 95 secondaries, I now think that these are too big although someone else on this forum was using bigger ones. (Really I'm a bit reluctant to state jet X and rod Y these days!....take it or leave it! )


In my humble you can not use one of these carbs without being aware of its affects on the ignition system, I wrote the following on Rover/Lucas systems a while ago....

http://how-to-build-a-pilgrim-sumo.wiki ... by-members

[v8mini1]

hey sidecar

i have a question for you. i have a 3.9 range rover v8 with stage 3 heads,tubulars and a 500cfm eddy on. i cant remember what jets and rods i have in it with out strippin it down. what would you suggest for prim,sec, jets and rods/springs as its in a mini van with 5 speed lt77 and rear wheel drive mgb rear axle. with hoosier drag slicks on back. and is purely a drag car so far.

any one else want to help here aswell much appricated.

[sidecar]

hey sidecar

i have a question for you. i have a 3.9 range rover v8 with stage 3 heads,tubulars and a 500cfm eddy on. i cant remember what jets and rods i have in it with out strippin it down. what would you suggest for prim,sec, jets and rods/springs as its in a mini van with 5 speed lt77 and rear wheel drive mgb rear axle. with hoosier drag slicks on back. and is purely a drag car so far.

any one else want to help here aswell much appricated.

Hi,

You know the one size of RV8 that I have not done much work on it the 3.9 lump! I am building one at the moment with muscle Manta, we will then set the carb up.

What I can say is that all of the lumps that I've worked with need similar AFR's but the jetting required to get the settings seems to differ with engine size. The 3.5 lump seems to need to be jetted richer on the cruise circuit than the 4.6 lump to get the same AFR of around 14.5:1

The 3.5 needs the cruise setting about 8% leaner than the base setting on cruise, the 4.6 needs to be about 16% leaner than base.

The acceleration circuit seems to swap things around, the 3.5 needs to be about 7% leaner than base whilst my 4.6 and Muscles both want to be on the base setting in order to get an AFR of around 12.5:1

The secondaries will want to be around 77-80-83. (12.5-13:1 WOT AFR)

I reckon you would be safer going for the 3.5 settings but it might run a little rich. If you run it too lean on cruise it will be a pig to drive even if you only drag race your car!

3.5 settings would be 86 primaries, 67-55 rods, silver rod springs and the secondaries mentioned above.

4.6 settings are 83 primaries 65-47 rods, silver rod springs, secondaries as above. (My primaries and rods differ because I use home made rods)

I must say that it is really hard to give good setups via a forum, your cam, exhausts, air lifter, inlet manifold will all make a big difference to the setup that you need.

I have been doing some more work on my setup, get this the carbs AFR figures differ just by tipping the carb back 2 degrees. My carb was tipping 5 degrees forward, I fitted a 5 degree wedge plate which cured a rich bog when braking hard (yes the float were set right). I then modified the wedge plate to 7 degrees which tipped the carb back 2 degrees. It totally cocked up the carburation, the wedge plate was scrap! (I find this hard to believe myself, you'd think that G force and road hills make more difference than 2 degrees).

Really a lambda probe is the way to set up your carb on your engine

[Muscle-Manta]

v8mini1....... A good starting point for your carb on a 3.9 would be 83 jets in both primary and secondary's, use the stock 65 52 rods which should already be installed in your carb, Change the orange springs for the silver ones.

I am with Sidecar on the opinion that the only proper way to set the carb up is with a Lambda air/fuel ratio meter. However the above setting is the one I used on my old 3.9 which was checked with a Lambda and proved pretty good.
As sidecar says you have to take into account quite a few different factors so this setting may need fine tuning for your 3.9

If you need any jets, rods or springs let me know I have quite a stock.

Paul.

[Johnny Rotton]

Hi, I have a Westfield with a 4.6 v8, stage 3 heads and a Crane fast road cam (either 218 or 224, prior owner couldn't recall which!). It has a Weber 500 with 14"x2" pancake filter and I believe it is running rich as plugs are quite black (NGK BP7ES). Tickover is also slightly lumpy.
As car is now SORNed for the winter, thought I would see what jets and rods are in the carb. The rods are 62-52. The primary jets had 120-082 stamped on them, although I could be mistaken as not easy to read ! The secondaries had 395-595, so I assume these are the stock 95s.
Have read Sidecar's excellent article on the Eddy 500 which is really useful. I note from his post above that the recommended set up for a 4.6 is 83 primaries, 65-47 rods and 77-80-83 secondaries. Would this be for a standard 4.6 ?
I appreciate every engine will be different, but it would be good to know if my current set up is anywhere near where I need to be. Will probably take it to a rolling road in the Spring, so any recommendations in the Midlands (south B'ham) would be great.
Cheers
John

[sidecar]

Hi, I have a Westfield with a 4.6 v8, stage 3 heads and a Crane fast road cam (either 218 or 224, prior owner couldn't recall which!). It has a Weber 500 with 14"x2" pancake filter and I believe it is running rich as plugs are quite black (NGK BP7ES). Tickover is also slightly lumpy.
As car is now SORNed for the winter, thought I would see what jets and rods are in the carb. The rods are 62-52. The primary jets had 120-082 stamped on them, although I could be mistaken as not easy to read ! The secondaries had 395-595, so I assume these are the stock 95s.
Have read Sidecar's excellent article on the Eddy 500 which is really useful. I note from his post above that the recommended set up for a 4.6 is 83 primaries, 65-47 rods and 77-80-83 secondaries. Would this be for a standard 4.6 ?
I appreciate every engine will be different, but it would be good to know if my current set up is anywhere near where I need to be. Will probably take it to a rolling road in the Spring, so any recommendations in the Midlands (south B'ham) would be great.
Cheers
John

Thanks for the complements!

Here's my opinion for what its worth....

Your lumpy tickover won't be down to the jets and rods because the AFR at tickover is controlled by the pilot screws, I'd be looking at those along with the timing. Of course depending on the spec of the engine, mainly the cam you can just end up with lumpy tickover. (You should still try your best to get it running smoothly). My 4.6 runs a 285 cam and large bore headers with hardly any back pressure, my tickover is fine at 800, below that it get's a bit rough.

Your jets can not be 82, they could be 83. (The jets go up in 3 thou sizes, 86 being standard) You can rub the face of the jet on fine wet and dry with a bit of WD40 on it, this can make reading the numbers much easier. I'll assume that they are 83's. With these jets and your rods your AFR will be 4% leaner than base on cruise and 11% leaner on the power step. Now these days I'm not keen on recommending jet and rod combos because it depends on too many other things but if you want to push me I'd say that your setup is all wrong!

My setup is 16.9% leaner than base on cruise and zero % leaner on the power step. (I use one off rods but you can get near my setup with 83 jets, 65-47 rods. This setup would be a starting point for a standard 4.6 or a tuned one, basically its a start! The tricky part is getting the cruise as lean as possible without the engine response going down the pan and this is what I can not help you with because it depends on your setup. BUT if you go one thou too large on the rod the engine becomes undriveable. I run a 69 rod, it runs fine, I made a 70 thou rod and I could not get the car off the driveway!

One problem you may well have is that your filter lid could be too close to the top of the carb, you really need a 3" high filter. Is the base of your filter a 'drop base'....if so you will have big problems with a 2" high filter. What sort of filter lid do you have, is it a pressed steel slightly come shaped one or is it a cast ali one?

Can you measure how much of the filter stud pokes out from the top of the carb when the filter is removed, this will give us an indication of the filter lid to carb top clearance.

[Johnny Rotton]

Your opinion is worth a lot as you have much more experience of fiddling with this carb than I do !
Interesting that you think my set up is all wrong ! I will try your recommendation of 65-47 rods, which are very easy to swap. Where is the best place to source these ?
What about the secondaries - should I try smaller jets ?
As for the filter, I read somewhere that a 3" would be better, but I think bonnet clearance will be an issue even with the V8 bulge. The base is a "drop base" and the lid is slightly cone shaped. It is chrome plated steel I think. I will have to measure the stud length later. What is the issue with the lid being too close to the top of the carb ?
Are 2 1/2" filters available as that might fit under the bonnet ?
Cheers
JR

[sidecar]

Your opinion is worth a lot as you have much more experience of fiddling with this carb than I do !
Interesting that you think my set up is all wrong ! I will try your recommendation of 65-47 rods, which are very easy to swap. Where is the best place to source these ?
What about the secondaries - should I try smaller jets ?
As for the filter, I read somewhere that a 3" would be better, but I think bonnet clearance will be an issue even with the V8 bulge. The base is a "drop base" and the lid is slightly cone shaped. It is chrome plated steel I think. I will have to measure the stud length later. What is the issue with the lid being too close to the top of the carb ?
Are 2 1/2" filters available as that might fit under the bonnet ?
Cheers
JR

Hi JR,

The reason that I think your setup is wrong is that your filter setup and lid is restrictive yet your carb setting at least on cruise is far richer than any of the setups that I've ever run. Your powerstep maybe OK-ish but that only because of the restrictive filter.

The issue with the lid being too close to the top of the carb is that it totally messes up the carburation, alot of the stuff that I've read reckons that you need a 3" gap. My filter stud is 75mm long.

I don't think that you can get a 2.5" filter, you can get different drop bases and you can get an adaptor ring that sits between the carb and the filter base to raise it up. You could get one and fine tune it to get the most clearance.

Other things that you could do are to fit an Extreme flow K+N filter top, some people don't like them but they have to be better than a solid lid that is too close to the carb top. You could also ditch the choke flap which will then allow you to cut the whole choke horn off the carb. (You have to be quite brave to do this!)

Your secondaries are likely to be too large but really until you get good air flow into the carb it will be any body's guess what the whole setup should be

Muscle Manta on this forum can supply you with jets and rods. (Although I have is entire collection at the moment!)

[sidecar]

Double post!

[Muscle-Manta]

JR, I run a 14x2" K&N with the K&N Xtream filter lid on my 4.6 -same spec as sidecar's engine. It does not run rich on the same rod and jet settings as sidecar uses, which tells me the filter is not restricting the air into the carb.

If you are restricted for hight the K&N Xtream filter lid should help.

I can supply you with a set of 65-47 rods for £8.50 including postage. Must retrieve them from Sidecar!

Cheers,

Paul.

[Johnny Rotton]

Many thanks Paul. If you e-mail me your name and address I will stick a cheque in the post to you. Do you also have some 83 secondary jets and if so how much are they ?

Where did you source the K&N Xtream filter ?
Cheers
JR

[BISH V8]

I also run with a 3'' k & n filter with the xtream top filter to get as much air into carb as possible,i also run with a 500 edelbrock carb,i have also cut away the chock and casting area where the choke used to sit,this resulted in getting more air to carb..YES on a brand new carb as well..One point i would like to mention is that i had to make a splash plate which sat on my radiator to stop cold air going into carb and freezing the jets, this only happens on very cold days,this was found out by mark(v8bloke..Thanks) on testing days so its worth mentioning if you decide to go this route..My jetting i believe is perfect,i run a 4.6 rover with stage 3 heads/ 238 cam,i cant remember the jettings but ive got writen down somewhere,its the exact same jetting as mark (v8bloke.. Thanks again)used when he had these heads so ive been very lucky in getting the jets perfect..
One more point i would like to mention, the actual heads you are using do make a huge difference in jetting, i have a mate who also runs a 4.6 rover but only has standard heads,all this year he has been trying various jets/springs and still he hasent found the answer,he did tried my settings but they were no good....

[Muscle-Manta]

JR, .I do have some .83s. Make sure you have .83s in the primary's not 86's before fitting the 65-47 rods. Compare the .83s I am sending with the jet's already fitted in the primary's.

If you are unsure about the size .86 or .83 there is a way to find out using one of the new .83s. Make or find a tapered pin small enough for the jet to sit on. If your jet sits lower on the taper then the .83 your jet is bigger than a .83, if it sits further up the taper than the .83 it's smaller.

PM with address sent.

Cheers.

Paul.

[sidecar]

The only way to be sure that the AFR is correct for all the carbs circuits is to use an exhaust gas analyser of one sort or another. I use an Innovate LC1.

On the idle circuit and the cruise circuit the actual AFR figures are not that important, basically the engine will 'tell you' whether they are what it wants by the way that it responds. The tickover will be rough if the figure is wrong, with the cruise you just keep leaning it off until the engine won't respond then go one stage richer. With the tickover you may have to go leaner than what the engine actually wants if you have a strict emissions level for your car.

For the acceleration and WOT figures you need to be in the 12.5-13:1 range.