EDIS vs COP pros and cons please

[virgil]

....
I built an MS1 on a V3 board running MSExtra code.....

That's what I meant on my post earlier. I'm sure its a good system and half of me wants to build it myself, but I;ve not yet seen an 'idiots guide' to the various options/versions etc etc. has anyone done one?

MS1 vX, Y, Z

MS2 vX, Y, Z

MS3 vX, Y, Z

[DaveEFI]

There are basically 2 processors MS 1&2, and three boards V2.2, 3, 3.57

If you're building it, go for the MS2 V3. Not the cheapest option, but can do everything the earlier ones can do plus more - and better.

Here's a link to some FAQs:-

http://www.diyautotune.com/faq/faq.htm

ISTR seeing a table which gave all the facilities of each and every version - but can't find it. I've asked on the MS forum for a link to it.

[conrod]

I just built my Megasquirt a few weeks ago and installed it running EDIS8 in my Landrover 90. Has been flawless so far.

I built an MS1 on a V3 board running MSExtra code, and plan to get it running fuel later this summer. The build manuals can be confusing as the docs don't seem to be totally up to date and you can get conflicting/different info, but I just asked a lot of questions on various forums and got there fine.

I had been running Megajolt previously and that ran for around 2 years (I think) with no problems with the EDIS module itself or the Megajolt. The only failures I had were of coilpacks, both secondhand off ebay so I have no idea how far they went before they both did around 30-35,000miles with me! Strangely both failed in the last couple of months. Simple solution to this is to carry a spare. Both times I managed to limp somewhere safe on four pots and swap in a replacement in a few mins

Ah well, another tenner on ebay and I had two more to put on!

If the dwell time (on time) of the coil is too long, this can cause the coils to fail prematurely. I have no idea if this is adjustable on these systems though?

[SimpleSimon]

I just built my Megasquirt a few weeks ago and installed it running EDIS8 in my Landrover 90. Has been flawless so far.

I built an MS1 on a V3 board running MSExtra code, and plan to get it running fuel later this summer. The build manuals can be confusing as the docs don't seem to be totally up to date and you can get conflicting/different info, but I just asked a lot of questions on various forums and got there fine.

I had been running Megajolt previously and that ran for around 2 years (I think) with no problems with the EDIS module itself or the Megajolt. The only failures I had were of coilpacks, both secondhand off ebay so I have no idea how far they went before they both did around 30-35,000miles with me! Strangely both failed in the last couple of months. Simple solution to this is to carry a spare. Both times I managed to limp somewhere safe on four pots and swap in a replacement in a few mins

Ah well, another tenner on ebay and I had two more to put on!

If the dwell time (on time) of the coil is too long, this can cause the coils to fail prematurely. I have no idea if this is adjustable on these systems though?

No not with EDIS i think Quagmire was just unlucky to get 2 duff coils as I have never changed a gen 1 coil since being in the trade during production of these coils 1990> as I remember, HT leads from the original fitments Mondeo/Escort yes loads same as EDIS module never seen one fail but your right about the switching dwell this can kill coils very quickly if incorrect

[JJMclure]

COP - 8 coils wasted spark - 2 coils
If the COP coils are 30 quid each and the wasted spark are even 40 quid which is cheaper?!
I know which version I will be getting!!!!

Also have a look at this book
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Performance-Fuel-Injection-Systems-Cramer/dp/1557885575/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1306409914&sr=1-1
it might be of use to you

[spend]

There are active coil packs that quite a few of us use... ie VW/Audi/Skoda style I think Phil Ringwood has come round to supporting them with his MS's & they have always been standard on KMS ECU's (if you have heard of them).

How are they mounted on an RV8? Other thing is how does the heat from the exhaust manifolds effect life?

Same as any other coil packs, you probably wouldn't / can't tell the difference, its just that the pesky igniters are inside the coil packs - so easy to replace & less noise in the wiring....

ETA: note when comparing prices the cost of drivers to go in the ECU and the penny cheap components needed to drive active coil packs, where the active coil packs don't really cost a premium (just a bit rarer that's all).

[DaveEFI]

Here's a pretty complete list courtesy of the horses mouth.

http://ms3efi.com/feature-xref.html

[Quagmire]

No not with EDIS i think Quagmire was just unlucky to get 2 duff coils as I have never changed a gen 1 coil since being in the trade during production of these coils 1990> :

Yep I reckon i either had v high mileage ones to start with- god knows how far they went before I started using them, or was just unlucky. That said they did do 70 miles a day 5 days a week for a long while before letting go.

My Dad has also Jolted his 110- he hasn't had any coil failures, and in the V8 Landrover community in general they also seem to be a rare occurence...

As for the modules themselves, I have never heard of a single one failing *touchwood*

[virgil]

There are basically 2 processors MS 1&2, and three boards V2.2, 3, 3.57

If you're building it, go for the MS2 V3. Not the cheapest option, but can do everything the earlier ones can do plus more - and better.

Here's a link to some FAQs:-

http://www.diyautotune.com/faq/faq.htm

ISTR seeing a table which gave all the facilities of each and every version - but can't find it. I've asked on the MS forum for a link to it.

Thanks. And the link in your 2nd post. Had seen these but re read and makes a bit more sense now...although......

You say there are two MS versions 1&2 and 3 boards. I get the 3.57 bit...machine built rather than under built...but there's 3 MS versions listed...

MS1
MS2
MS3

Then there's the ms3x (which I understand is an add on board to the ms3 (only?) To give individual spark output, signal only, not direct drive.


So if I want wasted spark, get ms3, if I want cop, get ms3x.

If I want to build it myself I can get an ms3 v3 board kit and buy the expantion msx? plug I'm board. Or buy a machine built ms3x using a 3.57 board...

Either way I can then drive the coil packs from the exult or an Eris module, or with a cam tomb wheel drive individual coil packs or coil on plugs assuming they have built in 'drivers'

Does that sound about right?

[virgil]

COP - 8 coils wasted spark - 2 coils
If the COP coils are 30 quid each and the wasted spark are even 40 quid which is cheaper?!
I know which version I will be getting!!!!

Also have a look at this book
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Performance-Fuel-Injection-Systems-Cramer/dp/1557885575/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1306409914&sr=1-1
it might be of use to you

Thanks for the tip. Just ordered...benefit, or not, of smart phone and an hour train commute!

I suppose the real question is, is a much neater engine bay worth 200quid premium to go cnp/cop?

[DaveEFI]

It's actually more complicated - and I don't pretend to know all the options.

MS2&3 share the same daughterboard processor. And the ports on that can be configured for what's needed. For example, on the B&G code version, some might just drive LED tell-tales - but on Extra code, drive COP with built in injectors. So you need to check out the Extra versions too - links at the bottom of that page. But you can modify a basic say MS2 which started out using B&G code to Extra spec and just load in the different code - all the details are freely available, although as you've found can take some finding.

All IIRC.

It might be easier to make a list of what you want.

[bobtail84]

COP - 8 coils wasted spark - 2 coils
If the COP coils are 30 quid each and the wasted spark are even 40 quid which is cheaper?!
I know which version I will be getting!!!!

Also have a look at this book
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Performance-Fuel-Injection-Systems-Cramer/dp/1557885575/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1306409914&sr=1-1
it might be of use to you

Thanks for the tip. Just ordered...benefit, or not, of smart phone and an hour train commute!

I suppose the real question is, is a much neater engine bay worth 200quid premium to go cnp/cop?

Virgil, have a look at my web site and give me a call...

Jeff

[daxtojeiro]

The versions of MS can indeed be confusing. But it's not as bad as it seems if you eliminate a few things from the start.

MS1 - Old hat now (even though I wrote a lot of the code) forget this version unless you want a setup thats very basic. MS2 is another £50, its welkl worth that small cost!

MS2 - This is the ideal setup as its very tuneable, easier than MS1 to get your head around and it has a better backup these days due to more people having it.

MS3 - This is similar to MS2 except it has SD datalogging and USB connection (MS1 and MS2 can both have USB) Its main advantage is being able to control a V8, etc, in a sequential mode. To acheive seq fuel and spark its a lot more cash than MS2 (£150 plus the COPs,etc)

But having said the above, if you get the V3.0 pcb then you can upgrade from MS1 to MS2 or to MS3, so its not like you make a decision and your stuck with it. Most people dont use MS1 these days, I would guess 5% of my sales are MS1 and thats for basic setups (generators, etc)

Have a look here for more info on boards, etc: http://www.extraefi.co.uk/information_OL.htm


As for EDIS or direct fire, I personally prefer direct fire, again EDIS is old hat now and although its robust, your using second hand parts. I've had just as many issues with EDIS setups as I have with direct fire. The EDIS setups are harder to diagnose, where as direct fire setups are usually easier as long as the install is done well (grounds on engine, etc)

Direct fire setups mean you arent stuck to the Ford coils (even though they are very good) but you can use the RV8 coils as they are neater.

EDIS is also harder to wire in as theres another module to wire in and it takes up more room.

As for COPs, well I prefer them as the install is neater. Especially when you use the LS2 COPs with built in ignitors. They can sit on the rocker covers with a 3" HT lead to the plugs. But it is harder to install, as theres a lot more wires

But theres no power gains over any of them, an EDIS will produce the same engine power as a direct fire or a seq COP setup, so at the end of the day its your choice. Its like asking what colour car is best, its your preference,

Phil