Comp head gaskets s Copper head gaskets

mgbv8 · Post by **mgbv8** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:59 pm

Anyone used or using Copper??

The price difference is huge. But is the improvement in reliabilty huge as well??

Perry

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:04 pm

Not used them on a V8 but years ago I had one on a Mini 1400 project engine with wire o rings set in groves in the head (very little gasket land available on a 74mm overbore), worked a treat, fit and forget not something you usually say about a mini head gasket. Got one on my Laverda, set up on a the same set up. Engine spec, is 11.5:1 CR and 1159CC of 4C (race) cams 114degree LSA, this adds up to high cylinder pressures, again had it since '94 in this spec, done about 18k miles and not even thought about the gasket, doing the bucket tappets involves loosening 6 of the head studs to get the cams out and I have done this twice and no leaks.
If you do have to remove the heads for any reason on copper gaskets you just have to renew the wire and aneale the copper gasket, never need to buy another one. Once you have converted you don't spend any more money on head gaskets and nothing else comes close on sealing ability.
Best regards
Mike

mgbv8 · Post by **mgbv8** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:45 pm

Thanks Mike!
Thats the sort of thing I was hoping to hear. But what about these grooves in the head for the wire rings? Do I need those as well?
Its a stock block with no everbore!!

Perry

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:49 am

I would generally choose a quality head gasket over most solutions.

But if that isnt available...or it isnt a road car. The copper based solutions may be worth trying.

Contact these guys, as they offer a few different options that dont require o-ring machining.

http://ferriday.co.uk/

bigaldart · Post by **bigaldart** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:17 am

O-ringing is simple and not too expensive, we have had zero gasket problems since going to copper with o-rings, previously we were forever blowing them. Use a steel gasket as a template and get them water jet or laser cut from soft copper sheet, way cheaper. We use them once then turn over and use again. Then re-anneal and carry on doing the same. We have o-rings in the block and no receiver groove in the head, 11-1 with 16lbs of boost. You can always make a tool that locates in the bore and cut the grooves by hand. Its not too difficult to do. Otherwise pay someone to do it, plenty of places who do drag engines are familiar with it. A little silicone around water and oil ways and everything else dry.

spend · Post by **spend** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:56 pm

The rings are quite expensive I think. Scares the hell out of my little wallet if they had to be replaced. Many are not solid but gas filled, which may account for the price differences. There were composite gaskets with copper fire rings used by TVR on the heads they ringed but nobody seems to make them anymore.

I have a head gasket dxf if you want to cut copper (+ exhaust gaskets from the bore waste to boot if needed).

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:18 pm

bigaldart wrote:O-ringing is simple and not too expensive, we have had zero gasket problems since going to copper with o-rings, previously we were forever blowing them. Use a steel gasket as a template and get them water jet or laser cut from soft copper sheet, way cheaper. We use them once then turn over and use again. Then re-anneal and carry on doing the same. We have o-rings in the block and no receiver groove in the head, 11-1 with 16lbs of boost. You can always make a tool that locates in the bore and cut the grooves by hand. Its not too difficult to do. Otherwise pay someone to do it, plenty of places who do drag engines are familiar with it. A little silicone around water and oil ways and everything else dry.

Are rings really needed at that level ??

I ran around 15-16psi of boost on my TT RV8 4.6 with factory composite gaskets and ARP studs.

I never had any problems at all, and I abused the crap out of that thing lol

bigaldart · Post by **bigaldart** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:48 pm

Are rings really needed at that level?

Not too sure but feel happier leaning on it with them there. Admittedly when we had regular gasket problems there were tune up issues. But since its at 11% under now and we have pulleys all the way to 46% over at least its ready when we get carried away

Problem is the other damage if they do let go, just like Perry found out.

The gas filled rings are Wills rings and yes they are expensive but thats not what we are talking about. Just a steel wire formed into a ring with the ends butting together. Tapped into the groove leaving about 6-8 thou proud of the block. In fact we use copper wire for the ring. 1mm earth wire from mains cable. The Wills ring set up using the rings fitted to machined grooves in the block and the head as the only combustion seal, then a seperate composite gasket seals the oil and water ways. Popular F1 set up, money no object.

Alan