Newbie needs help

kjon · Post by **kjon** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:35 am

Hello all, I'm new to the forum & hoping for some help..
I have a Landrover Series 2a with a late model SD1 3.5 rover V8. I completely rebuilt the engine last year but have to say that after spending a lot of time & money on it I'm pretty disappointed..
First I'll give you the specs then the problems.. The rebuild included, new bearings all round (except cams) rebore (9.75:1) RPI Torque max camshaft, new followers & timing gear, new valves & springs, rockers & shafts, Mallory distributor & Magnecor leads, skimmed the heads to use comp gaskets & set tappet preload. Im running SUs (also rebuilt) with K&Ns BAK needles & timing set to 14 degrees static.. now the bad stuff..
Ever since the first run the engine puffs out white smoke when revved from tickover, the longer it ticks over the more the smoke! (very embarrassing when sat in traffic..) and its defiantly going down the guides.. at first I thought I might just be a tight engine & stop once run in, but it hasn't.. now done 3K & its just as bad as ever.. Thought about getting some later heads with the oil seals on the guides or getting my heads modified but having recently found this site & had a good read, I realize I'm trying to treat the symptoms & not the cause.. I removed the rocker covers yesterday & ran the engine & found the top end flooded with oil.. its pouring out of the rocker shafts & the valves are swamped.. The rocker arms i was supplied with when rebuilding were steel rather than the original aluminum & having read some bad reports could these be the problem? but if they are then i'm still confused.. as other thing I don't understand is why the oil pressure is so high? I have a good capillary gauge & the hot oil pressures are as follows.. 20psi@500rpm 45@3000 55@4000 60@5000 aren't these on the high side? & assuming my problem is the rockers/shafts then wont the oil pressure be even higher when not leaking all over the top end?.. Perhaps the problem is the oil pressure alone?... Im confused..
I wouldn't mind so much if the thing went well, but doesn't in my opinion.. but ill address the performance after i sort this over oiling problem..
Any advise would be much appreciated as I'm just about at my wits-end with this thing

Thanks

Jon

bones · Post by **bones** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:58 am

Hi, someone will give you a better idea about it, i thought if oil goes down the exhaust valves it would be blue smoke coming out , and what state are the plugs in and are the exhaust valve rubbers ok, and according to the rover book 3.5 oil pressure at 2400rev 35psi.

rich

RoverP6B · Post by **RoverP6B** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:13 am

Hello Jon,

Your oil pressure readings are fine.

Up until circa 1994 the RV8 heads never had valve guide oil seals, and past engines did not do what your engine is doing, so,.....

You have not over filled the engine with oil, in other words you have the matching dip stick for the sump?

I have no experience with steel rockers, although I was advised not to use them when I had my new 4.6 built.

Ron.

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:36 pm

I have always thought it was Blue/black smoke for oil, white smoke for water, Grey "dusty" for old carbon caked engine/ very very rich mixture.
Mike

unstable load · Post by **unstable load** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:17 pm

That's right kiwi,

White= water
Blue= oil
Black= rich mix

topcatcustom · Post by **topcatcustom** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:25 pm

My lorry does that a bit, if you leave it idling for 5 mins when you pull away it smokes a bit, if you leave it idling for 15 mins and pull away it kicks out a huge cloud for a few yards then fine though! That might just be an old diesel type thing though...

What type of oil did you use when you ran it in?

TC

v8 pete · Post by **v8 pete** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:37 pm

sounds like cracked block [water]

CastleMGBV8 · Post by **CastleMGBV8** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:44 pm

Jon,

Sounds like you have at least a couple of problems.

Firstly as others have stated, white smoke (steam) = water ingress into a cylinder or cylinders, are all the plugs the same colour or do some look as if theyv'e been steam cleaned?

Secondly the excess oil in the valve chest areas, I would suggest that for a pre 1994 engine that 60 PSI at 5000 RPM is more than a little high which suggest that your prssure relief valve may be stuck closed and contributing to rhe amount of oil in those areas but if it is flooded with oil it would suggest wear in the rocker shaft areas.
Were the shafts also replaced at the same time as the rockers?

If you pull the springs side way it's easy to see if there is any excessive clearance between the rockers and the shafts.

The steel rockers I believe are Federal Mogul items not designed for the Rover, and from memory require a small mod before they can be used or they can cause excess oiling.

Sounds like you got a lot of the stuff from RPI, did they supply the rockers?

And welcome by the way, your in the right place.

Kevin.

kjon · Post by **kjon** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:41 pm

Hi Guys & thanks for all the replies, I may have misled you slightly by describing the smoke as white its white/blue but its defiantly oil, i'm not losing any coolant, all the plugs are the same, + you can smell the oil!.. compression is fine & I have plenty of vacuum (20in @ tickover) & it doesn't smoke when accelerating, today i replaced the oil pressure release valve spring but the pressure remains the same, however I didn't take the valve out for fear of pump draining & not self-priming again.. my next plan is to borrow the rocker gear off a old motor I think I can get my hands on & temporally fit it to see if that makes a difference?.. And yes I did replace the shafts as well as the rockers when during the rebuild..

Thanks again

Jon

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:06 pm

Have you got the right sump/dipstick and dipstick tube combination? is it the (quite common) having far too much oil in the sum situation? get the combo wrong and you end up trying to run 9 or 10 litres of oil in the sump to get it to register on the dipstick and it doesn't want to stay in

hence lots of oil smoke and a strong oil smell everywhere.
Mike

CastleMGBV8 · Post by **CastleMGBV8** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:15 pm

Jon,

One other question,

Have you got the crankcase ventilation system correctly installed and working.

If not the crankcase pressure will definitely blow oil down the inlet valve stems which is also assisted by manifold vacuum at idle.

Kevin.

Ian Anderson · Post by **Ian Anderson** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:44 pm

How much oil are you using?
On a 100 mile trip say XXX cc / ml / pints!?
Or is it a lot less / more it will give us an idea of the magnitude of the problem.

Are you using any other fluids? Like Brake fluid and vacuum boosters can leak and that also burns white? Big vacuum will also then draw more through. It would also leak at idle as you have your foot on the brake and be seen when you take off from the lights

Just another area to explore

Ian

Lewis · Post by **Lewis** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:45 pm

Yea, I'd check the vent system too.

The oil pressure was always high on my 3.5EFi, never did really look into it.....Never seemed to harm it, though (even after dragging it several times).

Only started leaking oil when I removed the PCV system....soon put that back! OEM fitted for a reason it seems

topcatcustom · Post by **topcatcustom** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:05 pm

Just going back to Kevins point- the steel rockers may have an extra oil hole in them which (if present) does need tig welding up, or as said it will leak far too much oil around the valve guides which may be seeping down and causing the smoke. With regards to the crankcase pressure you could remove the breather pipe and hold it out of the way to see if it breathes heavily and if the smoke dies down at all...

CastleMGBV8 · Post by **CastleMGBV8** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:19 pm

Tom,

The breather system needs to be connected to vacuum to have any effect.

On my original engine when I had the two rocker covers vented to air I had an oil burning problem,but as soon as I installed a proper PCV system problem over.

Kevin.