Modified car law changes.

Post by **katanaman** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:25 pm

The way I understand it is we are just getting caught up in stuff. The original intention of the points system was to stop expensive classic or vintage cars being sold when there was very little of the original car left. I agree with this totally as many of the 19 whatever cars are actually 2000 something and very little remains of the original car. There is also a lot of cars on the road where the identity has nothing to do with the reg. Kit cars that have a plate off something else and through some old loop hole they managed to get it on the car. Bikes and trikes are really bad for that as most trikes have a Reliant Robin plate on them. Course this whole thing has grown legs and in many cases is just stupid. Take my car for example. I have changed the engine and gearbox which under the points is fine. If I change the brakes and suspension to cope with this then its SVA time. I have made the car safer but under points its illegal and will have to go through all the tests. Technically a cage is a chassis mod which is a big points looser so your stuffed again. In a way its right to go this route and stops the badly modified cars getting on the road. The problem is the SVA is totally out of line with this to the point that it will be virtually impossible for some cars too pass. I wouldn't have a problem with the car loosing its original identity or the stuff I have changed having to meet modern regs. What I don't want to have to do is change original parts of the car to meet the new regs. We need a different modified test that allows the original parts of the car to be left alone. Kinda like you used to have to get for insurance when you needed an engineers report to say the modifications were done to a safe standard.

stu8 · Post by **stu8** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:54 pm

Regarding the black box for road charges, they are not going to be able to get between 20 and 30 million boxes reliably manufactured quickly let alone fitted and tested, so that idea will have to phased in over a number of years.
Nor will they be able to setup the monitoring and revenue collection system very quickly, Government and large computer system projects have never mixed, have they got the NHS / GP system working yet after 5 ? years = no.
Air traffic control took 10years I believe.

Whether they make it mandatory for cars to have the box fitted by a future date and then bring in charges for everyone at the same time, or start charging once the box is fitted I know not.
But if they start charges for some and not others it will cause havoc with second hand car prices with people avoiding models with black box lability.

MOT /SVA has a similar problem, no one knows how many ? millions of cars might need to be SVA'd. , it won't just be a few thousand.

Where are the testers for all that.

Both of the above will happen, they will take a long time to complete though.

.

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:34 pm

If the government can force motorists into paying yet more money for usign their cars on the road.

one thing is for sure, they WILL do it.

IMO, all this isnt about securing a cars identity, or to stop car crime, or to make cars safer etc etc.

Its only about raping motorists of every last penny they have.

r2d2hp · Post by **r2d2hp** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:12 pm

I was told last week that all new cars over the past 2 years are already fitted with tracker sort of device and many of the major roads are fitted with the sensors.

Post by **katanaman** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:43 pm

r2d2hp wrote:I was told last week that all new cars over the past 2 years are already fitted with tracker sort of device and many of the major roads are fitted with the sensors.

That as the law stands right now is illegal and I don't think any government would want to go anywhere near that civil liberties issue, well not and ever hope to get elected again.

r2d2hp · Post by **r2d2hp** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:18 pm

Well thats what I was told by a garage owner of 30+ years. They dont actually track where you are they just register how many miles you have done.

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:32 pm

The factory ecu could do that...

But thats a very very different thing than tracking someones movements.

Some cars are of course fitted with the anti-theft device, Tracker....

not quite the same thing though.

The thing is, if they do decide to go down that road, thre will be thousands of people out there, either removing the devices, or finding a way around them.

ihatesissycars · Post by **ihatesissycars** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:48 pm

Maybe in some sort of satnav system the car could be tracked but i can tell you now 100% that Vauxhalls don't have anything like that fitted to them.

Post by **katanaman** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:25 am

Not only will they need a huge tracking system they will also need a massive amount of number plate recognition cameras to catch the people as Stevie says bypassing the system.

Anyway I know my car isn't being tracked as I borrowed some top secret alien technology from the local military base and scanned my car which was fine.

Wouldn't it make more sense to track you with something most of us already have, a mobile phone? Its already proven to work, used regularly by the police. Can track you anywhere and not just in your car and better still we have already paid through our tariffs to put the system in place. Now there is a conspiracy theory for you. Someone in MI5 knows exactly where you are right now, not only that but they are watching where your surfing and posting. Hang on someone is at my door..............

ihatesissycars · Post by **ihatesissycars** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:34 am

Someone showed me a cool trick once. Using your work email write two emails one titled tonights tea and the other titled blair/bush assasination plans. Send the blair one first to you home email and the tea one second and then check the time they both arrived. The tea one will arrive first and the blair one second. . . . .

It should be the other way round, where did the blair one go that caused it to take longer than the other when really that should of arrived first?

It worked once ages ago but hasn't worked recently so don't be dissapointed if it doesn't!

While we're on the subject of conspiracy theories and similar things does anyone know if the Auroras been uncovered yet?

Post by **katanaman** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:50 am

Aurora has been quiet for a couple of years. Some say the project was closed and some say its in use giving the retirement of the SR71 as proof of this.

Eliot · Post by **Eliot** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:45 am

ihatesissycars wrote:Someone showed me a cool trick once. Using your work email write two emails one titled tonights tea and the other titled blair/bush assasination plans. Send the blair one first to you home email and the tea one second and then check the time they both arrived. The tea one will arrive first and the blair one second. . . . .

It should be the other way round, where did the blair one go that caused it to take longer than the other when really that should of arrived first?

It worked once ages ago but hasn't worked recently so don't be dissapointed if it doesn't!

While we're on the subject of conspiracy theories and similar things does anyone know if the Auroras been uncovered yet?

You are probably refering to the carnivore system. Mails wouldn't arrive any slower, because all it did was sniff the traffic and copy any smtp with interesting content for later analysis. Said unit would have to be place at either your works ISP or your home ISP - they cant sniff the traffic from the states. Well, there are ways of doing that actually - but you have to hack into the internet router at either site and create a policy that tunnels your mail somwhere else for inspection. (And it does work - I'm a security tester)

It would more likely be your works mail system grinding to a halt as usual.

r2d2hp · Post by **r2d2hp** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:16 pm

Marki,

You are making the assumption that the unit transmits rather than be interogated, maybe at MOT time or it could be via a revised electronic car tax system.

Will check my source and find out where the information came from.

It has nothing to do with the tracking of the car, person etc - purely the collection of data as a means to bill the vechicle owner for using it during high conjestion periods.

Ian Anderson · Post by **Ian Anderson** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:48 pm

I'd still vote for the men from the ministry to add say 2p to a litre of petrol and do away with the Road Fund Licence. those that use the most pay the most. Alsp all the foreigners using the roads also pay for the privelage (How many Pilish and Czech cars have you seen around recently?)

But at the same time I would make a disc on the MOT certificate that you put on your windscreen that way the cops can tell at a glance if your car is legal! All foreign cars would be given a 1 month from entry disc - after which they are off the road or pass the MOT.

The MOT I have also heard is beeing looked into to change it from annually to every 2 years.

Re the modified cars I would suggest that they be done at a "Super MOT" shop where the testers are engineer types and can check the safety items and make a call. The test being one for safety and not the full monty of a SVA

Just my 2c worth

Ian

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:39 pm

Ian Anderson wrote:I'd still vote for the men from the ministry to add say 2p to a litre of petrol and do away with the Road Fund Licence. those that use the most pay the most. Alsp all the foreigners using the roads also pay for the privelage (How many Pilish and Czech cars have you seen around recently?)

Must be thousands over here, and its a small country !!!!

But at the same time I would make a disc on the MOT certificate that you put on your windscreen that way the cops can tell at a glance if your car is legal! All foreign cars would be given a 1 month from entry disc - after which they are off the road or pass the MOT.

The MOT I have also heard is beeing looked into to change it from annually to every 2 years.

Realistically, for a lot of modern cars, 2 years shouldnt be a problem. After all, how many accidents are down to unroadworthy vehciles ?
As for the disc, we already have it here in NI, although it isnt compulsory yet.
While emissions testing is the only sticking point, our MOT is one of the strictest in Europe now after they spent millions on stupid equipment. Its all government run bodies here, no privates.
BUT, thats also why they dont do the CAT tests or diesel smoke tests. MOT testers were offering advice on how to repair, and people were doing that instead of actually getting it diagnosed and fixed. The advice was often wrong, so there was an irate customer.
They also had a habit of blowing up customers cars doing the rev the shite out of it diesel smoke test..
Needless to say, after dozens of otherwise good engines expired, and law suits were looming....they amandoned that too lol. Now only cars 2001+ get that abuse.
Others just do the basic emissions for vehicle year.

Re the modified cars I would suggest that they be done at a "Super MOT" shop where the testers are engineer types and can check the safety items and make a call. The test being one for safety and not the full monty of a SVA

Just my 2c worth

Ian

Possible, but what one person sees as safe, others might not. All of the proposals are designed to allow the governemnt to make more money, one way or another.
I hope future governments throw these new proposals out, but they probably wont.
Sooner or alter motorists, hauliers etc will get fed up. Motorists pay far too much into the UK and get nothing in return.
Income tax is suposed to fund the running of the country, not the motorists.

Why dont they up income tax, and stop taking motorists money ?? Im sure there are literally millions of people out there, who pay very little in taxes, simply because they dont own a car, yet they enjoy the privileges that motorists give them ( food on their tables etc )

Income tax might go p, but if motoring costs came down, the price of everything could fall by quite a bit, as transport costs are high for everything.