Really bad MPG on Rover V8 4.6 - Help!

Def west ender · Post by **Def west ender** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:02 pm

Cheers Mike for the info, I've got over Christmas to work out my best options, looks like the distributor is the first on the list, it'll be under the tree hopefully!

Ian from Rpi sent me these links (in previous posts too):

Our complete ignition list
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Land-Rover-V8-eng ... dZViewItem[/img]

The Lambda loop system

Worthwhile options?

PS: Looks like I'm getting to grips with whats needed to do, cheers for all the useful help/info, I only hope I can return the favour/s

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:50 am

HI
I don't know how to put this in terms that won't sound like I'm slagging them off, but if I were spending my money I would be very weary about who's advice I sought. There are companies who view an enquiry from a customer as an oppertunity to offer a service supplying the right part/ service for the job hoping the enquiry will result in future business, and those who view it purly as a chance to shift as much stock off the shelf as is humanly possable. When dealing with the latter I would know exactly what I want to buy first and not let myself be influances by any "advice" that tries to sell me some fancy add on or doodad that "they just happen to have in stock"
Also in the case of RPI you can normally buy it from harrods cheeper

.
Another two years as a slug for me next time around

Mike

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:38 pm

Just to stick up for RPi a bit (not saying they are perfect mind you!).
I have called with technical queries recently, both times spoken to Holly (their engine builder), who has been very helpful. The second time I purchased a Piper 270 camshaft as a result of the conversation (I already knew I wanted a 270 or 285). I purchased nothing extra. Unfortunately they sent the wrong cam (pre-GEMS, and I wanted GEMS), but they sent me the replacement the next day and offered to refund my postage too. So customer service was great too.

So I can't complain at all.

Other peoples mileage may vary as they say!!

Chris.

Def west ender · Post by **Def west ender** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:10 pm

Just found this, not sure if it's of interest to anyone else?

RPI £145

Another ebayer £60

Is this a cheap load of crap or will it be ok?

BadgerV8 · Post by **BadgerV8** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:44 pm

Kev wrote:
Mine was a bit similar in that the power was less than expected, the power band was narrower than normal and higher up the rev range than expected.
...
My advice would be to do a rough and ready check with a timing disc on the crank pulley and a clock gauge on a rocker; don't forget there's 720deg. per cycle.
Kev

Hmm.. this is sounding kinda similar to the problems I've been having with mine. High fuel consumption, low on power. I had the timing chain & gears off to finish off a little job CNC machine couldn't be bothered to do <sigh> and now this seed of suspicion is planted, its possible I might have let the sprocket slip from the chain... ??

I best check, once the garage warms up a bit.

Please excuse the rookie questions, but...

So to do the quick test, I guess you try to find the peak lift on a valve with the clock gauge?
Is maximum lift always at the same position on all cams?
If so, where should the crank be with cylinder 1 intake or exhaust at full lift?

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:40 am

To check the timing, you need to find TDC by using a dial test indicator on a piston. Then you need to measure when the valve starts to open and closes. Half way between the two is max lift. Measuring the valve is also done with a DTI.

Note the protractor stuck to the crankshaft pulley and improvised pointer.

Obviously this is easier with the engine in pieces!

Chris.

BadgerV8 · Post by **BadgerV8** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:15 pm

ChrisJC wrote: Obviously this is easier with the engine in pieces!
Chris.

I picked up a clock gauge on the way home (£17.25 from Tool Mart), but think I'll wait 'til the weekend before braving the garage.

I've been thinking I should establish real TDC, so this is a good reason.

Measuring the cam on a rocker should be good enough to confirm the crank and cam are properly aligned, you think? If I do as you say, measuring where it starts and stops moving, I guess any geometry effects shouldn't matter.

What is "correct" though? What am looking for to confirm is correct?

cheers,
Dave

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:31 pm

With the piper cam that I have, it gives you the angle which is max lift at 112deg ATDC for inlet and 112deg BTDC for exhaust.

Of course you'd need that info for your cam...

Chris.

BadgerV8 · Post by **BadgerV8** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:28 pm

ChrisJC wrote:With the piper cam that I have, it gives you the angle which is max lift at 112deg ATDC for inlet and 112deg BTDC for exhaust.

Of course you'd need that info for your cam...

Chris.

Ah, OK, I thought their might be variations between cams. I'll find out the numbers from the supplier, and test this weekend.

Thanks again for all the help.

topcatcustom · Post by **topcatcustom** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:18 pm

You can get the camshaft info you require from piper & kent online if you know what you have, don't know about other manufaturers...

BadgerV8 · Post by **BadgerV8** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:52 pm

topcatproduction wrote:You can get the camshaft info you require from piper & kent online if you know what you have, don't know about other manufaturers...

Piper 270/2:- at full lift on no1 intake, the crank should be at 108 degrees, apparently.

It was mentioned that doing this on the rockers is a bit dodgy on hydraulic lifters.

40 teeth on the cam gear makes 9 degrees per tooth. So that would be 18 degrees wrong on the crank... wouldn't it?

I must be able to see an error that big!

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:36 pm

You just need to make sure that the lifters are 'pumped up', otherwise the spring in the lifter will compress before starting to lift the pushrod.

Chris.

Def west ender · Post by **Def west ender** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:52 pm

I'm going to tackle taking the inlet manifold off in the next week to try and find if mines been put back a tooth out, any tips would be of help as I'm doing this with the engine in the car so it may be a bit of a pig to get to certain bits.

I was thinking of just doing a compression test if the cam timings were out would this give a low compression as the valves may be opening/not fully closed at TDC?

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:40 am

Hi
A compression test won't tell you if the cam has been installed a tooth out.
Mike

Def west ender · Post by **Def west ender** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:14 pm

ChrisJC wrote:With the piper cam that I have, it gives you the angle which is max lift at 112deg ATDC for inlet and 112deg BTDC for exhaust.

Of course you'd need that info for your cam...

Chris.

Hi ChrisJC, I'm going to tackle this tomorrow at a friends garage (fingers crossed) I just have the standard cam though, do you know where I can get the degrees of max lift? or do you know them?

Cheers Shaun