Eprom socket for 14CUX

CastleMGBV8 · Post by **CastleMGBV8** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:56 pm

I still find this confusing because the Mark Adams chips are sold to fit a 14cux ECU and they only supply the bridging socket if the ECU doesn't have one.

If you have a 14CUX with a removable chip as with the TVR ECU's the suggestion is you can just plug in the Optimax or Tornado chips, so would TVR have coded or cross wired the chip carrier, and why would they have bothered?

The RPI ad also states the same, they only supply FOC the chip carrier if you ECU doesn't already have one.

Confusing!

Kevin

r2d2hp · Post by **r2d2hp** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:09 pm

Hi Kevin,

The chips are supplied with the decoder and both are required to be plugged into the 14CUX ecu. If your ecu does not have a socket fitted then this would have to be sourced separately and someone would have to remove the soldered in Eprom and replace with sourced socket.

Not sure what RPI say but thats the bottom line.

r2d2hp · Post by **r2d2hp** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:29 am

Hi Kevin

This is a picture of the underside of the socket that is sandwiched between Tornado chip and the ECU.

Maybe some can advise what the chips does?

jefferybond · Post by **jefferybond** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:07 pm

r2d2hp wrote:Hi Kevin
This is a picture of the underside of the socket that is sandwiched between Tornado chip and the ECU.

Maybe some can advise what the chips does?

Ah, the 'GAL' chip is a PLD (Programmable Logic Device, kinda like a very small FPGA). This can be programmed to perform any logic function you like (within reason), and is going to be performing the scrambling function. It's likely to be more complicated than simply swapping the address/data wires around.

A chip like this will be quite difficult to reverse engineer, and will protect the EPROM contents very well!

Jeff

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:16 pm

jefferybond wrote:
r2d2hp wrote:Hi Kevin
This is a picture of the underside of the socket that is sandwiched between Tornado chip and the ECU.

Maybe some can advise what the chips does?
Ah, the 'GAL' chip is a PLD (Programmable Logic Device, kinda like a very small FPGA). This can be programmed to perform any logic function you like (within reason), and is going to be performing the scrambling function. It's likely to be more complicated than simply swapping the address/data wires around.

A chip like this will be quite difficult to reverse engineer, and will protect the EPROM contents very well!

Jeff

Also I suspect it's probably just some basic logic function on the IC contents, maybe inverting some bits or something.

I think it would be fairly straightforward to figure out if one had the original chip & a Mark Adams one.

Chris.

Chris.

Eliot · Post by **Eliot** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:46 am

Bin the whole thing and megasquirt it. Then everytime you make a modification you can retune it.

r2d2hp · Post by **r2d2hp** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:48 pm

Elliot,

You make the assumption that people want to rip out the wiring loom or start cutting into them to fit not standard equipment for which would break laws in some countries.

Personally if I was swapping the ECU it would be to something has manufacturer support IE DTA, Omex, Emerald etc and would leave DIY stuff well alone.

I like many other don't think we have become engine mappers overnight and we just want to have them setup and be able to drive them without having to continually tweaking them.

Not sure if you have ever driving a car setup by Mark Adams but if it was not for me fitting a supercharger I would not have swapped from the 14CUX as it was an absolute dream to drive.

Eliot · Post by **Eliot** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:12 am

r2d2hp wrote:Elliot,

You make the assumption that people want to rip out the wiring loom or start cutting into them to fit not standard equipment for which would break laws in some countries.

Personally if I was swapping the ECU it would be to something has manufacturer support IE DTA, Omex, Emerald etc and would leave DIY stuff well alone.

I like many other don't think we have become engine mappers overnight and we just want to have them setup and be able to drive them without having to continually tweaking them.

Not sure if you have ever driving a car setup by Mark Adams but if it was not for me fitting a supercharger I would not have swapped from the 14CUX as it was an absolute dream to drive.

Given that the RV8 EFI loom is completley stand-alone, I dont see why you need to hack anything - you could create a "drop-in" loom that replaces the existing Lucas without any cutting and is reversible when you sell. You may be able to gut an old 14cux box and fit a MS inside - but I understand dimitri's local regs on that front.

There's nothing special to engine mapping - People used to tweak carbs by reading the plugs etc. Now you can tweak EFI and see the results in real time via the wideband. Not exactly a black art, as 1000's of MS users have proven the world over.

What you are paying for with mark adams, is the fact that he took the time to reverse engineer the ECU - which is a commendable achievement. Megasquirt exists for those who want to do this work themselves - otherwise - as you say - use a comercial ecu or pay for a MA chip.

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:32 am

I think r2d2hp's point is that although one can fit an MS and some kind of map, your 'homebrew' map will be nowhere near as good as an OE map from Land Rover.

It takes manufacturers many months of work on the dyno and test track to get a map that works well in all circumstances. I don't think there are any short cuts (otherwise the manufacturers would be doing just that!)

Chris.

Eliot · Post by **Eliot** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:27 pm

ChrisJC wrote:I think r2d2hp's point is that although one can fit an MS and some kind of map, your 'homebrew' map will be nowhere near as good as an OE map from Land Rover.

It takes manufacturers many months of work on the dyno and test track to get a map that works well in all circumstances. I don't think there are any short cuts (otherwise the manufacturers would be doing just that!)

Chris.

Yes I agree with that point entirley. And the same applies to any other ECU for the same reason.

Interesting thread over at PH related to this:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topi ... 0317.29460

Wotland · Post by **Wotland** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:00 pm

Eliot wrote: Interesting thread over at PH related to this:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topi ... 0317.29460

Some Maps are aviaible here for Rover V8 with Emerald :
http://k80rum.co.uk/emerald_maps.aspx

Post by **Coops** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:45 pm

going over to an aftermarket ecu was the best move i did,
car runs better, and im now getting more mpg

r2d2hp · Post by **r2d2hp** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:30 pm

Don't see how you can do a comparison to a 14CUX setup by Mark if you have never had one.

And how long has it taken to get it running right just on the fueling, 15 months I believe if the VEMs forum is anything to go by. Sorry not for me ime afraid, would rather pay for someone to sort in few hours on the rollers and get on with enjoying the car.

I am going with Emerald based on the experience had by V8IAN and that will be both Fuel and ignition all setup on 30th April for a one off fee of £275.

Post by **Coops** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:52 pm

each to there own Reg,
yes it has taken me a while, but i have enjoyed doing it,
i can't afford an emerald, or the cost for them to set it up,
vems and MS are DIY units, so thats why i am having a go at setting it, a bit more pride when she runs like a dream then, i can say, i did that

and i am enjoying the car while i am doing it,