None starter

rangiestu · Post by **rangiestu** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:01 pm

Hello all,

I have a range rover 3.5 EFI and it wont start for some reason!!

I started it the other night and noticed id left the switch on petrol after doing some off roading so i switched it back over to LPG and it instantly cut out and now refuses to start

I think i accidentally put the switch in the central position for a second or two which im told cuts all fuel.

Im pretty sure its trying to start on LPG and not petrol as i can smell it in the AFM pipes etc which would explain why it wont start. I just cant understand why its not switching to petrol at start up as it should!!

Any help and info would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Stu

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:27 am

What sort of LPG system is it?

Chris.

rangiestu · Post by **rangiestu** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:01 pm

Hi chris, i forgot to mention what type it is sorry.

The system is made by Voltran, and isn't a sequential injection type, it's the type where the gas enters just before the air flow meter. There's no lambda sensor and it's the hotwire injection system.

thanks,
Stu

mr_s · Post by **mr_s** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:50 pm

Hi Stu, it's the flapper EFI system, not the hotwire

(it's my old car)

As for problems, it still sounds like a problem with power getting to the fuel pump to me (still reckon it's got to be a loose wire), unless something's gone wrong with the petrol/lpg switch that means it's trying to start on LPG rather than petrol (although it still should start on gas anyway, my Merc starts fine on LPG if you force it to).

I'd take the fuel pump relay fuse out (3rd from the right at the bottom IIRC), stick a spade terminal in, turn the ignition on and see if you've got 12v at the fuel pump relay fuse. If you have, put the fuse back in and see if power gets down to the relays under the seat, the fuel pump one is the LH one (again IIRC). That should tell you if power is getting to the fuel pump at least...?

Cheers, Martin

mr_s · Post by **mr_s** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:54 pm

p.s. If the switch is faulty, I've still got a spare I can post up to you!

rangiestu · Post by **rangiestu** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:19 pm

Hello mate. I have had the fuse box out and cant find any loose wires etc. I need to borrow(or buy)a multimeter to check if im getting any power ect. Its just so bloody cold out there at the mo

its just bazaar that it was running fine then as soon as i clicked it over to gas, it was dead!!!!!!

I realy need to get my head round this as its sitting in front of a very grumpy neighbours house at the mo

The switch lights up etc but i suppose that's no guarantee that its working as it should.

My problem is that im pretty useless at car lecky!!! Im fine with a spanner etc but car electrics realy do my box in

Il have another go tomorrow after work and aee what i find

Thanks,
Stu

mr_s · Post by **mr_s** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:48 am

Just a thought (more of a recollection from when I did it actually...). It's not run out of petrol has it? Took me ages to figure out why it wouldn't start, then the Mrs threw that idea into the fray.

I felt very, very silly...!

rangiestu · Post by **rangiestu** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:10 pm

No mate, i put half a tank in.

Been messing with it again today. Still no joy. It has power to the fuel pump relay, power to the black relay for the LPG, infact power everywhere it needs it!!! Its getting a good spark from the coil and a good spark from the dissy.

I can get it to fire up momenterily if i flick the switch between petrol and gas as im turning it over, the only problem with that is that after a while it pops the afm pipes off!!

When i click the switch to the center 0 position with the ignition on i hear a click from the rear(lpg tank?) and front (atomiser?) so there is defo something not right with the system

mr_s · Post by **mr_s** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:02 pm

Could be worth pulling the air filter off the AFM and check/make sure that the 'flap' inside is still moving freely. At rest, it should be at the front of the unit and should move smoothly all the way back and then return to the front (it's spring loaded). If the fuel pump relay is getting power with ignition, then the electrics/relays seem to be ok...

Another possible is that the fuel pump has failed, or the wiring from the relay to the pump has broken?

Are you sure that no other hoses/pipes have popped off anywhere (around/under the plenum chamber perhaps)?

The click you hear when you put it to the centre position on the switch should be all the LPG system solenoids returning to 'closed'.

Cheers, Martin

rangiestu · Post by **rangiestu** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:13 pm

Hello Martin. I checked the AFM plate and its working fine. I couldn't see any other pipes other than the big ones at the front and rear of the AFM! . I remember you mentioning one round the back but simply cant see one or anywhere one would fit

Oh the plenum chamber!! Just nipped out to check it and one pipe was loose at the back, i put it on but still no joy

Post by **katanaman** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:56 pm

Possible your getting petrol as well as lpg? If you get both it will never run. Have you pulled the plugs and were they wet?

rangiestu · Post by **rangiestu** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:15 pm

I did pull 1 plug and it wasn't wet. It looked a very healthy colour to be honest. Can anyone tell me which fuel pipe to take off to see if im getting any petrol through?

Its funny you should say that though as im getting a strong smell of LPG after i have cranked it over for a while, i thought it strange as surly it should always start in petrol anyway? Like i said before its like its trying to start in LPG and not petrol. Where could i get another relay from? The one that clicks it between LPG and petrol. I know its getting power but i have no idea whether its clicking over or not!! It may well be stuck on the LPG side for all i know

Cheers

Stu

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:47 pm

I think you need to dig about a bit more to try to find out how it changes between the different fuels.
i.e. how does the petrol system get shut down when it's running on LPG - presumably some signal is interrupted to the ECU. Check that's working properly, as that's the most likely reason that it won't start & run on petrol.
For the LPG system to work, the following have to be true:
Power to solenoid on tank
Power to solenoid under bonnet
Power to vapouriser.
The power to these three (assuming all three are present) comes from a relay / timer / safety device which powers them up if both the fuel switch is set to LPG, and the engine is running (which it determines by a feed from the ignition system). The idea is that if it stalls (or is in an accident), it doesn't empty the LPG tank into the engine or atmosphere and cause a big bang.
This solenoid will usually allow the gas through for about 5 seconds without the engine running (so you can start on LPG if you want to)

Chris.