Re-using old cam followers?

Rick-Manta · Post by **Rick-Manta** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:20 pm

Howdy! Silly I know but I've had to decide to fit my old hydraulic lifters to my RV8 for budget reasons, trouble is I've muddled the order and obviously don't want them to clatter around like a bag of spanners! Can I refit them in any order with some cam lube and expect them to run quiet? They have very light and even wear plus I have new pushrods or is my only option a new set of tappets? Cheers, Rick.

PS Notice how i've descibed them as followers, lifters and tappets all in the same topic, just like the V8 workshop manuals

Post by **katanaman** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:40 pm

its not them being noisy you have to worry about its the mismatched lifters destroying the cam. This is assuming its an old cam if its a new cam then you will kill it in a matter of miles so just don't do it. You can try it but you might well be back in there very shortly replacing both the cam and lifters.

Rick-Manta · Post by **Rick-Manta** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:11 pm

Yikes really!? Yes I'm using an old camshaft which used to bash the lifters I was now hoping to reuse. Having muddled up the order are these for the bin and my only option is to buy new?

Thanks mate, the project's pretty much on hold until I've got work again (handing in my notice tomorrow)

Ooh er!

Post by **katanaman** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:30 pm

I know money is tight and all that but I would say look out for a new standard cam and new followers. You can get standard cams pretty cheap along with pattern followers. Old and new can work but it seldom does specially if there is a few miles on them. By design the cam and followers work harden so if you mix say and old cam with new followers the cam is hard but the followers are soft so they wear rapidly. Likewise using old followers in the wrong order your putting two hard bits of metal together that aren't worn the same so the high spots will grind off pretty quick causing rapid wear.

pwd95 · Post by **pwd95** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:50 pm

What about mixing pushrods up? are these vital too?

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:23 am

Doesn't matter with pushrods IMHO.

Chris.

Rick-Manta · Post by **Rick-Manta** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:16 pm

Thanks. Hmm! That's a real shitter. I've had a good read through some older topics and this new/old cam/lifter thing is regulary mentioned. I can buy some new lifters eventually, but the cam I'm pretty much stuck with. I can't remove the bottom pulley to get the timing cover off and therefore the timing gear and camshaft are there to stay. However, it sounds like it may be better to re-use the old lifters even in the wrong order than replace only the lifters for new, as the metal in the old ones have the same 'hardness' and mileage as the cam. They all have worn identical to the eye with a very smooth dip in the middle of each lifter so surely any extra wear will be microscopic until they wear as they normally did? Is it 'can' lead to problems or 'will' with this sort of gamble?

Thanks again

TVRleigh · Post by **TVRleigh** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:49 pm

From what I have read. It would be better to use new lifters.
Old and new seem to work better then old and old in wrong order.

Also this way you won't damage the cam, but with old and old in the wrong order you can.

I'm sure somone will post a more detailed post.

Spag · Post by **Spag** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:28 am

If the car isn't doing a huge number of miles or being driven hard, then you can probably get away with it for a while.

BUT - bear in mind in the RV8 the cam and followers are pretty much considered a 'consumable' item

so you will still need to change them in a few months - or when the ticking (or clatter) starts to bug you !

It's unlikely the engine will explode doing the sort of devastation that will show up on satellite images, but in the unlikely event a lifter breaks up then you could end up with a 'bearings & rings' rebuild at the cheapest.

So, if yer happy that you will have to pull the cam & followers at some point, then probably OK(ish) for a bit...

need4speed · Post by **need4speed** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:19 am

Spag wrote:......It's unlikely the engine will explode doing the sort of devastation that will show up on satellite images....

Personally i would throw the old lifters in along with the old cam. i know you may do a little damage to the cam but at least when you do get around to replacing the cam, you wont need to buy ANOTHER set of lifters...

Put the old stuff back in BUT (and its a big 'BUT') replace the cam and lifters as a set soon. Hard to say how long before you really damage it, but id be looking to replace them within a couple of months. Also drive it VERY easy keeping the revs to a minimum...

ppyvabw · Post by **ppyvabw** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:00 pm

Personally i would throw the old lifters in along with the old cam. i know you may do a little damage to the cam but at least when you do get around to replacing the cam, you wont need to buy ANOTHER set of lifters...

I don't think it's worth it, always replace cam and followers together. If you've muddled them up and put them back in, and it destroys the cam, then you will be buying new cam and lifters anyway, and all new gaskets etc.......to take everything apart again. It's just not worth bodging it in my opinion for what a cam and lifters costs. The surfaces wear differently, even if it is microscopic. It's basic principles to keep wearing parts matched. Like Marki said, it may only last a few miles. I have seen it happen on an engine, where the garage has replaced the lifters but not the cam. Chances are your old cam is past it's best anyway.

Pushrods aren't so important.

Why can you not get the pulley off? Wedge the flywheel with a screwdriver and use a big wrench, or take a head off, and jam some wood in a cylinder and screw the head back on it to remove the pulley. (with the rockers off or pushrods out lol)

Rick-Manta · Post by **Rick-Manta** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:11 pm

The engine is stripped except the bottom end. I wanted to replace the cam and the timing gear for one of those cloyes true timing ones in favor of reusing the nylon toothed rubbish, however 2 things got in the way:-
1) Jamming a piece of wood in the crankcase and using a long crack bar wasn't enough to undo the crankshaft pulley bolt and without that I can't get the timing cover off.
2) I'm without a job in the new year, so any plans of spending £1000's on this rebuild are now out the window, but I would like to actually put it all back together with what I've got.

It's hard to know what's best. I guess I could box up all the bits I have, store them somewhere and put the whole project back at least a year until I've found another job and caught up with the finances? I really did want to get the engine built up and finished just incase I had to sell it if things got desparate. Looks like there's no corner cutting with this beasty mind so I think my options are pretty limited.

Thanks for all your advise, I think I'll chuck these old lifters in the bin just to stop any temptation to reuse 'em.

need4speed · Post by **need4speed** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:37 am

ppyvabw wrote:
Personally i would throw the old lifters in along with the old cam. i know you may do a little damage to the cam but at least when you do get around to replacing the cam, you wont need to buy ANOTHER set of lifters...
I don't think it's worth it, always replace cam and followers together. If you've muddled them up and put them back in, and it destroys the cam, then you will be buying new cam and lifters anyway, and all new gaskets etc.......to take everything apart again. It's just not worth bodging it in my opinion for what a cam and lifters costs. The surfaces wear differently, even if it is microscopic. It's basic principles to keep wearing parts matched. Like Marki said, it may only last a few miles. I have seen it happen on an engine, where the garage has replaced the lifters but not the cam. Chances are your old cam is past it's best anyway.

Pushrods aren't so important.

Why can you not get the pulley off? Wedge the flywheel with a screwdriver and use a big wrench, or take a head off, and jam some wood in a cylinder and screw the head back on it to remove the pulley. (with the rockers off or pushrods out lol)

you misunderstand me. if it was me id be putting new cam/lifters in as a set NOW. But seeing as the guy seems to be a bit skint at the mo (as most of us are at times) and has to use his old cam, i would not use new lifters with an old cam. id wait until i could buy the lot complete...