'Rebuild Advice' - WTF?! - update from V8D

chodjinn · Post by **chodjinn** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:29 pm

So, I potentially have an opportunity to get a 4.6 requiring new liners and a rebuild. That's all I know so far.

I have a fairly good idea what it'll cost for the liners, but I thought I'd phone DJE for a bit of advice for rebuilding a short motor, knowing they are 'experts' and it actually says ring for advice/info/quote on their website.

Firstly, it was 'can't give any figures until I've seen the block', which seems like a cop out. In my mind the block is either ok, so it'll cost xx, or it ain't, and it'll cost xx. I did say the liners need doing (pref top hat which i was quoted at around £1k - way more than other quotes I've had) other than that i didn't know.

So I queried about ARP bolts and clevite/aftermarket bearings and got 'well you can't because their ain't any'. Fair enough, didn't know that. SO I ask what advice he could give me, and whether standard stuff would be ok (bearing in mind Stevies 4.6 twin turbo ran circa 500bhp on standard bottom end) or if not what could be used. I also said forged rods/pistons are out of the question as I may as well buy and LS1. He agreed. Also said they wouldn't warrant a standard build with twin turbos.

He than asks what i want out of it; I say a streetable motor which will be used for occassional racing but with plenty of poke; but not only was he pausing for ages and ages, they just seemed to not want to give me any advice whatsoever that was worthwhile. I asked several times what the best approach amy be but just kept getting fobbed off.

He also said "This is going into an MG isn't it?" - how the fcuk did he know that??? I never mentioned my car once. Hmmm someones been tongue wagging

Bah, all I wanted was a bit of helpful advice. I got the impression unless I said "well here's £5k go build a motor" they aren't interested, even in advising. Did I do something wrong here or to someone else?!

chodjinn · Post by **chodjinn** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:46 pm

Apologies, I realise this is a bit of a useless post so mods feel free to delete it.

All that bothered me was a) their stand-off attitude; and b) who the hell has said something to them about me and what has been said!

Think I may as well sack it all off and just do a standard rebuild myself and see what happens!

Post by **katanaman** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:09 pm

These are public forums, an advert going out with a knackered 4.6 and next day someone phones up wanting one fixed. All the tuning shops for good or for bad read these forums so its hardly surprising they twiged. Anyway serves you right as you should have used one of the forum sponsors

get a hold of V8 dev or V8 tuner and you might start hearing things you want to hear. You might even save a few quid into the bargain.

sidecar · Post by **sidecar** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:27 pm

I'll vouch for V8 Developments....very helpful people indeed.

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:56 pm

I would farm out the machining work to a good machine shop through one of the companies on this forum (they know there reputation stands on doing the work well as it will be reported on to all).
Then build the thing yourself. Then you will know it is done correctly by someone who really cares about doing it right and want's the best result for you not doing it down to a price. Having just done the filing rings and lapping valves it is simple to do well BUT takes time and care to do right, when you are doing it for yourself you can spend the extra 5 mins it takes to get it right on each ring /seat without it being charged at £60 per hour. It is a rover engine, no vvt only! only 16 valves 32 piston ring gaps (including both oil scrapers) 16 piston clips the beauty of this engine is it does not need anything special to rebuild it just time and care and attention to detail.
Sorry rant over
Mike

chodjinn · Post by **chodjinn** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:12 pm

Katanaman, it was not the 4.6 block etc that is or was advertised on this forum very recently. I have only ever talked to DJE twice before; and I dont eblieve I have ever mentioned my MG, hence why I was suspicious.

Mike, thanks and I totally agree. I was planning on rebuilding it myself anyway for experience if nothing else (well, expense as you pointed out!); in terms of doing it myself I have all the time in the world.

Yes, the machine work would need to be done by a specialist, of which there are many for the RV8. I have been offered a very good price for top hat liners by a machinist who will remain nameless, that is the only reason I am considering doing this.

All I wanted from DJE, given their experience with RV8s, was a bit of a helping hand with regard to the build. I didn't expect them to tell me down to the smallest bolt what to do, but I really didn't expect the response I got. I approached it (or believed I did) with the attitude of I dont want to buy or do something unnecessarily; I'd like to potentially rebuild the engine with components that will work with my set up, e.g if I need ARP bolts, then i'll get them. And I think that's what I'll do anyway, on me own

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:33 pm

Hello
sounds like a good plan, If I can help then please let me know, I am an amature builder but whatever I have learned I am happy to pass on. There is as you know the best pool of knowlage you could wish for right here on this site, you have to look damn hard to find anything to equal.
Mike

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:01 pm

Checking through old photos, The bottom end I used was a totally standard short motor. Std crank, std rods, std LC pistons, main bolts, and rod bolts.

Given its cross bolted, the mains wouldnt be as much an issue as an open 2 bolt block.

Bearings...havent a clue what make they were. Probably just whatever I could get locally. AE, ACL etc

chodjinn · Post by **chodjinn** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:15 am

thanks guys, picking the enigne up early next week. Will have to wait to see what state the block is in before deciding anything!

chodjinn · Post by **chodjinn** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:49 am

I've just looked at the V8 Tuner website for bearings, and low and behold they sell Clevite 77 bearings in STD and +10 size for the 4.0/4.6 litre engines, which is completely the opposite to what DJE told me on the phone yesterday. Bah!

Post by **Coops** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:51 pm

if you look in the members discount area you will find out how to get discount from v8 tuner also.

chodjinn · Post by **chodjinn** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:09 am

wow even better tony cheers!

Post by **Coops** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:20 am

no problems,
maybe i should do a mass mail to the members as a few members dont seem to check that part of the forum out,
and dont realise they can get discounts via the forum

chodjinn · Post by **chodjinn** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:49 am

On Tony's advice I rang V8D; Rob was on lunch so spoke to another guy. in a ten minute conversation he gave me more, better and honest advice than I have ever had before, and pertty much confirmed what I thought and what others have said on this forum.

Absolutely fantastic! I can use the front cover, high torque cam, even the Group A sump and ARP head bolts I already have in my 3.9 and transfer it over to the 4.6.

No problems with the top hat liners, and he didn't wince when i mentioned twin turbos - he just did some fag packet calcs using my heads and standard pistons and said the comp ratio wouldn't be an issue - contrary to pretty much everyone else I've spoke to. As long as the boost is low, it shoud be ok!

Wow! And the price I got quoted for the machine work and rebuild was waaaay less that I envisioned, to the point where it's almost worth me paynig them to rebuild it rather than do it myself!

fantastic company on first impressions.

Post by **Coops** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:58 am

glad things are looking good mate,
and also glad the forum has helped you, makes it all worth while.