How to use Innovate LC1 on kit car?

moppit · Post by **moppit** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:20 pm

Currently running a newly rebuilt Rover V8 in an NG TC kit car and want to set up the Eddy 500 carb to run the correct AF ratio's - as very helpfully outlined by sidecar on this very forum. Happy to invest in an LC1 (unless there is someone in Hampshire that has one that I could borrow for fee?)

Question is how/where to measure with the sensor? The kit has exposed exhausts (see pic) and I don't want to start cutting holes in the visible areas.

Where does the sensor go normally? how far from the ports? I figured there must be some sort of long probe that goes up the rear exhaust but not seen it advertised? Any suggestions folks?

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:44 pm

Place the sensor after the collector and all will be well.

It would be nice to get readings from both banks though.

As for widebands....LC-1's and a lot of Innovate products can be a pain in the hole.

I'd sooner trust the PLX Devices stuff, but if you really had to go down the Innovate route, their MTX-L is decent quality.

moppit · Post by **moppit** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:58 pm

Thanks Stevie,

As a bit of a noob here all I need is the 'C6 AFR Gen 4 kit' and a spare hole in the dash for the gauge? Why do you rate PLX over innovate?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-PLX-DM-6- ... Swq7JUIpVC[/url]

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:22 pm

Yes that would do fine.

Innovate make all these BS claims about how they control the sensor being better, faster, more accurate....

What it really translates to is a sensor that has a shorter life and goes faulty far more often than any other system.....except it isnt actually faulty, it just stops working on the Innovate. Plug it in elsewhere, including any of the VW vehicles the sensor is primarily used, and it still works fine in most cases.

But, the quality of their products in general is very good, and their logging software, ability to daisychain other items etc is very good.

That said, the LC-1 was probably their most troublesome product...the MTX-L is much better

If you've never any intention to do any add other items, do logging etc then I'd buy the PLX

Or for more money, Daytona Sensors make some decent stuff that logs onboard and can easily hook up to rpm etc for a carb car, but it would be hard to justify the cost when the other stuff is so cheap.
I do often prefer the square box design vs a round gauge...but if you have a spare round hole, then of course the round ones make sense

http://www.daytona-sensors.com/WEGO4.html

minorv8 · Post by **minorv8** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:00 am

I have LC-1 fitted to one of my cars and have had issues with it. One unit actually was sent back to Innovate because of constant complaints about faulty sensor (even if the sensor was brand new). When it was in USA I bought another LC-1 and that has behaved better. The first one came back from USA with clean bill of health: " nothing wrong with it sir...". I sold it to my friend who´s yet to fit it.

Their customer service had these standard excuses: sensor too close to engine, sensor tip too deep in exhaust, sensor overheating etc etc. But quite a few cars have sensor in close proximity to the turbo and that is pretty warm place.

I have a MTX-L in my turbo Mini and it has been perfect. It is easier to install because the controller is built into the gauge body whereas LC-1 has a separate controller + needs a display.

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:23 am

I'd also mention Tech Edge. They do a self assembly kit if you like soldering. Which also means it can be repaired if ever needed. Unlike machine made stuff which is much more tricky to repair, and probably doesn't come with a schematic.

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:08 am

I wouldnt even entertain the Techedge stuff.

It's primitive looking and overpriced compared to other makes. Even the PLX stuff can be primitive looking too, but that's just their controllers for the most part, rest of their gear is nice

sidecar · Post by **sidecar** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:37 am

At least one bloke on the Cobra forum has used the following sensor and thinks that it is very good...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AEM-FAILSAFE- ... OdkVS_1ZRA

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:47 am

stevieturbo wrote:I wouldnt even entertain the Techedge stuff.

It's primitive looking and overpriced compared to other makes. Even the PLX stuff can be primitive looking too, but that's just their controllers for the most part, rest of their gear is nice

Given the problems people seem to have with Innovate (and others) I'm happy to pay a bit extra from something which is well made.

sidecar · Post by **sidecar** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:06 am

Moppit....If you do not want to buy a gauge and are prepared to travel to Newbury then Muscle Manta on this forum may be able to help you out. You would need a probe bung welding into the exhaust but then Paul (Muscle Manta) could set the carb up either using his LC1 or my LC1. Paul will charge you a reasonable rate for doing this, He also has virtually every rod and jet that Edelbrock produce and will only charge you for the bits that you end up using. Paul can also cut the choke horn off if you are a bit wary about doing it yourself.

Paul does not have a rolling road, it would be done on actual roads so the weather needs to be good. Also I would have to see whether Paul wants to do the work! Sometimes Paul has taken on work that I have passed his way and it has ended up being, er, not quite what it was supposed to be!

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:12 am

DaveEFI wrote:
stevieturbo wrote:I wouldnt even entertain the Techedge stuff.

It's primitive looking and overpriced compared to other makes. Even the PLX stuff can be primitive looking too, but that's just their controllers for the most part, rest of their gear is nice
Given the problems people seem to have with Innovate (and others) I'm happy to pay a bit extra from something which is well made.

And the Techedge isnt well made ( maybe for something in the 80's or 90's it might pass for that )
I used their stuff around the new millenium when it first came about ( it all started as an opensource project..but they were the first to jump on it and commercialise it pretty much killing the opensource part ). It was cheap and nasty then as a DIY build.....and TBH it really hasnt changed much apart from asking huge money now.

TBH of them all the worst is the LC-1 but dont think they make it anymore anyway.

And the problems arent so much to do with construction or quality....it's Innovates silly control strategy for the sensor as already explained.
It's just less reliable although they will spout claims that this makes theirs more accurate, and responds faster etc etc

moppit · Post by **moppit** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:37 pm

sidecar wrote:Moppit....If you do not want to buy a gauge and are prepared to travel to Newbury then Muscle Manta on this forum may be able to help you out. You would need a probe bung welding into the exhaust but then Paul (Muscle Manta) could set the carb up either using his LC1 or my LC1. Paul will charge you a reasonable rate for doing this, He also has virtually every rod and jet that Edelbrock produce and will only charge you for the bits that you end up using. Paul can also cut the choke horn off if you are a bit wary about doing it yourself.

Paul does not have a rolling road, it would be done on actual roads so the weather needs to be good. Also I would have to see whether Paul wants to do the work! Sometimes Paul has taken on work that I have passed his way and it has ended up being, er, not quite what it was supposed to be!

Hi Sidecar, this is very helpful indeed, you guys are not too far away from me - I'm in Bishops Waltham. I might take you up on this if Paul is in agreement but don't want to impose. I plan on having a tinker first at the weekend with my jet kit that should be delivered tomorrow. After that will need to find someone who can do a neat job of welding a bung on my stainless collector unit , so no rush. I'll come back to you if(when!) I am struggling...

Have you got a picture of a modded choke horn and proper throttle linkage? Choke horn seems pretty straightforward unless I need a milling machine? How far down to go? Hacksaw/drill/file ok? I never use the choke and it is permanently wired open so a useless lump clogging up the airway. The shape of the horn seems quite specific - why is this?

I'll measure up the height of the air cleaner top plate to carb top for reference. Also will measure my bonnet clearance in case you can suggest any other solutions. I've got the Mr.Gasket low rider unit which is a bit tatty now (especially since I reversed over the lid in the garage one day).

For the throttle linkage is this a propriety part or something easily DIY'ed?

Thanks

Simon (AKA Moppit)

sidecar · Post by **sidecar** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:46 pm

moppit wrote:
sidecar wrote:Moppit....If you do not want to buy a gauge and are prepared to travel to Newbury then Muscle Manta on this forum may be able to help you out. You would need a probe bung welding into the exhaust but then Paul (Muscle Manta) could set the carb up either using his LC1 or my LC1. Paul will charge you a reasonable rate for doing this, He also has virtually every rod and jet that Edelbrock produce and will only charge you for the bits that you end up using. Paul can also cut the choke horn off if you are a bit wary about doing it yourself.

Paul does not have a rolling road, it would be done on actual roads so the weather needs to be good. Also I would have to see whether Paul wants to do the work! Sometimes Paul has taken on work that I have passed his way and it has ended up being, er, not quite what it was supposed to be!
Hi Sidecar, this is very helpful indeed, you guys are not too far away from me - I'm in Bishops Waltham. I might take you up on this if Paul is in agreement but don't want to impose. I plan on having a tinker first at the weekend with my jet kit that should be delivered tomorrow. After that will need to find someone who can do a neat job of welding a bung on my stainless collector unit , so no rush. I'll come back to you if(when!) I am struggling...

Have you got a picture of a modded choke horn and proper throttle linkage? Choke horn seems pretty straightforward unless I need a milling machine? How far down to go? Hacksaw/drill/file ok? I never use the choke and it is permanently wired open so a useless lump clogging up the airway. The shape of the horn seems quite specific - why is this?

I'll measure up the height of the air cleaner top plate to carb top for reference. Also will measure my bonnet clearance in case you can suggest any other solutions. I've got the Mr.Gasket low rider unit which is a bit tatty now (especially since I reversed over the lid in the garage one day).

For the throttle linkage is this a propriety part or something easily DIY'ed?

Thanks

Simon (AKA Moppit)

Hi Simon,

I've never managed to post up any pictures on this forum, PM me your email address and I'll send you some pictures!

Regards,

Pete

moppit · Post by **moppit** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:36 pm

pm sent.

Yes I could not figure out how to post links or pictures properly either...

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:54 pm

upload the photos here and copy/paste the links

http://www.evo-host.co.uk/