Camshaft / crankshaft timing

DEVONMAN · Post by **DEVONMAN** » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:31 pm

Wrongly or rightly, I have assumed that the dizzy worked fine on the engine before the camshaft was changed. Or is the optic pickup a new item into the melting pot.

TAFF · Post by **TAFF** » Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:27 pm

The distributor was fitted originally, the car had a slight miss, and I could never get it to idle evenly.
The replacement of the mentioned items were the last of the replacement things to find the problem.
I think the issue was a loose bolt on the cylinder head ( very loose ) and it showed it on the gasket and the head / block.
The distributor has thrown me on its set up, the regarding the optic or the rotor arm being set to the correct points.
The help and advice given here has encouraged me and given me a lift, I will start again on the weekend.

DEVONMAN · Post by **DEVONMAN** » Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:05 pm

TAFF wrote:The distributor was fitted originally, the car had a slight miss, and I could never get it to idle evenly.
The replacement of the mentioned items were the last of the replacement things to find the problem.
I think the issue was a loose bolt on the cylinder head ( very loose ) and it showed it on the gasket and the head / block.
The distributor has thrown me on its set up, the regarding the optic or the rotor arm being set to the correct points.
The help and advice given here has encouraged me and given me a lift, I will start again on the weekend.

I don't know much about an optic pick up and I don't know if it fires as the shutter wheel blocks the beam or opens the beam.
But in any case, given no vacuum advance mechanism, the baseplate to which the optic is attached should not move at all once the dizzy is set up. The optic should fire when the rotor is adjacent to one of the terminals in the dizzy cap. This setting up can be done with the dizzy out of the car as it is independent of the actual ignition timing relative to TDC.

mgbv8 · Post by **mgbv8** » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:19 pm

TAFF wrote:
mgbv8 wrote:
TAFF wrote:Ok, just to confirm.
it seems that a lot of reply,s are = " are you sure you are on compression stroke" ?
well if you read the previous posts you will find the answer!
if you can't be arsed, then here it is again.

I used the finger over the spark plug hole, rotated the crank by hand, the finger was being forced out from the plug, not in, out.
I also watched the inlet valve open and close ( a little way before TDC on the crank pulley ) i also used a gauge in the plug hole and watched the piston rise to its maximum point ( ON THE COMPRESSION STROKE ! )
NO 1 on the rotor has been set to No1 on the cap and all leads are correct.
I have a spark.
I have fuel
The timing marks have been set correctly.

It will not start, or attempt to start even when rotating the distributor either way, this is at both the TDC and 6deg before points.
Yes something is wrong, i will have to wait until next weekend before i can look at it again.
On top of this i have no oil pressure
That explains things better Taff. Now thinking along the lines of no oil pressure. You wont see any pressure when cranking to be honest. Why not set the engine to TDC with the dissy in the right place. Then pull the dissy and manually prime the oil system. This will highlight any oil system faults. While its out you can check the dissy drive to make sure its all in good nick and also double check that you havent got badly worn teeth on the cam cog that drives the dissy in case its skipping teeth and sending timing way out with every rotation of the engine. If you are worried aobut oil pressure I would investigate that first I think.
Perry
tried priming manually, with little resistance, i think the regulator has stuck.
all the gears are in good order as is the drive gear.
will whip the front cover off and start again though.

Sounds like a plan mate!!
Niggles like this are very frustrating because you know it will be something bloody silly eh ? For goodness sake dont let it get to you, even though stuff like this makes you want to throw the towel in sometimes.. Its all experience eh ? Stick at it Taff. We are all rooting for you

Pel

mgbv8 · Post by **mgbv8** » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:23 pm

TAFF wrote:The distributor was fitted originally, the car had a slight miss, and I could never get it to idle evenly.
The replacement of the mentioned items were the last of the replacement things to find the problem.
I think the issue was a loose bolt on the cylinder head ( very loose ) and it showed it on the gasket and the head / block.
The distributor has thrown me on its set up, the regarding the optic or the rotor arm being set to the correct points.
The help and advice given here has encouraged me and given me a lift, I will start again on the weekend.

So what dissy have you fitted? Mallory Unilite with infra red trigger?
If so then the optic trigger activates each time it see's a gap in the trigger wheel. Let us know what the dissy is Taff ? Some pics may help

Pel

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:37 pm

Presumably whatever dizzy you are using is matched to the amplifier and coil you're using ? and all wired correctly ?

unstable load · Post by **unstable load** » Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:21 am

stevieturbo wrote: and all wired correctly ?

This just occurred to me as well... Is the whole plot properly earthed as required?

TAFF · Post by **TAFF** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:27 pm

Ok, had a good look over things today, had the front cover off, timing is spot on.
Pressure valve was a little sticky, so cleaned it all out and removed the rocker shafts from both banks and primed the pump manually, had good oil flow on each bank, so re assembled it all and retried the pump, seemed a little lacklustre, we will see.

Anyway re fitted the dizzy and tried a plug for spark, seems a bit weak,
( Orange ) but the battery might need a boost.
I need to prime up the fuel pump again before I try a start, but that is where I am at.

This distributor, it is an ex Mallory dual point that has been converted to unilite breaker less ( less vacuum advance )
I will check to see if the cap is the correct type and also if the rotor is too, as I still don't see how the gap in the shutter wheel can be at the optic, yet the rotor arm points mid way between two posts on the cap.

TAFF · Post by **TAFF** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:15 pm

Ok update update update.

Had some time to look again at this, I have had quite a battle to get to grips with it, but nearly there now.

BUT...... I have tried and tried to prime the oil pump ( packed with Vaseline )
No joy...... Tried extra oil in the pan........no joy....... Taken the pump off cleaned it checked the pressure valve and retried it.......no joy, filled the filter with oil beforehand as well.

Each time I try to prime ( with a tool in the drill ) I feel the resistance when the oil bites, but then it dies away just as sudden.

The pump gears are good as is the pump face.

I have removed both rockers complete and primed with the drill and oil shoots out of both oil ways.

Could the rocker shafts be blocked? ( there is no crud anywhere they are spotless )

I will make a list of all the faults I have come across up to now, my head hurts.

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:37 pm

Presumably this is not the crank/cam timing issue you're now talking about ?

If there is substantial oil flow to the rockers that would suggest there should be oil pressure.

Which I'm guessing is what this post is about ?

TAFF · Post by **TAFF** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:19 pm

stevieturbo wrote:Presumably this is not the crank/cam timing issue you're now talking about ?

If there is substantial oil flow to the rockers that would suggest there should be oil pressure.

Which I'm guessing is what this post is about ?

I hope I have overcome the first.....

There is no flow to the rockers.... I have no oil pressure at the moment.

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:44 pm

Sounds like the oil pressure relief valve is sticky.

Get another pump and try that - I have found the fit of the pressure valve into the bore to be very close, and the tiniest bit of poop makes it stick.

Chris.

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:50 pm

TAFF wrote:
I have removed both rockers complete and primed with the drill and oil shoots out of both oil ways.

Could the rocker shafts be blocked? ( there is no crud anywhere they are spotless )

Again, not sure on the problem ?

Are you saying you have no oil flow or oil pressure ?

But you're saying you have good oil flow out the cylinder head to the rockers ?

Those two statements would be in contradiction to each other. If you remove the oil pressure switch or whatever you're using as a pressure reference, does oil pish out it when primed ?

If it's just oil out the rockers you want, are the correct pedestals in the correct locations for oilflow through the rockers and shaft ?

Darkspeed · Post by **Darkspeed** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:49 pm

You may be taking that front cover off again to make sure that the flow and return oil paths are clear. At the same time you can blow back into the sump and mak sure that the oil pick up is doing its job and that there are no leaks.

Didn't we have a case recently that had the the paths blocked or the pump sucking air from the wrong gasket ? needs to be the thick blue one or some such.