Help with coolant hose layout

v8250 · Post by **v8250** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:25 am

Gents, installing TVR 4.0ltr into the MGB. There are two small coolant hose take-offs that I can't find any info' as to their correct installation, 1. from from near side front of inlet manifold, and 2. from the nearside front of the nearside coolant pipe that runs underneath the manifold [see attached pic, the 2nd take-off can only just be seen].

Also, am I right in that the flow to the heater is the offside pipe that runs under the inlet manifold?

Have searched the internet, V8 forum search and every manual known to man but can't find the answer. Thanks for your help, Andrew

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:59 am

Pic isn't working here.

The first two sound like they may be to the throttle body on the injection set-up.

Did TVR still use the steel pipe running under the manifold for the heater - same as the SD1? Spawn of Satan.

v8250 · Post by **v8250** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:13 am

Hi Dave, yes, TVR take the heater flow pipe under the inlet manifold. I'm using an earlier Rover pump for space where the flow output connects to the heater pipe. The two smaller take-offs may be for the throttle body heater set up, but I'm not using this. Have re-linked photos as url's so hopefully pics are viewable.

http://s220.photobucket.com/user/v8250/ ... R.jpg.html

v8250 · Post by **v8250** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:43 am

Dave/All, have taken some better pictures...

Engine as installed
http://s220.photobucket.com/user/v8250/ ... sort=3&o=0

Pump heater output to heater flow pipe [A], this pipe is monted under the inlet manifold exiting to rear driver side.
http://s220.photobucket.com/user/v8250/ ... sort=3&o=2

[C] and [D] showing small take-offs
Q1 ??where should these be connected, together??
Q2 ??should there be take-off from thermostat housing shown by green arrow??
http://s220.photobucket.com/user/v8250/ ... sort=3&o=1

v8250 · Post by **v8250** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:51 am

Okay Guys, I've been a muppet. The two small take-offs C & D are for the under plenum intake heater loop-back circuit, which I'm not using :. I can simply connect these together, keeping correct flow and ensuring no hot spots.

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:00 pm

You could just connect them together - or simply blank off in some way. Don't think they are needed if you don't heat the throttle.

There must be more variations on how the plumbing is done than with any other engine - just about every installation is different.

I'm intending using a GEMS inlet on my SD1 (it has a MegaSquirt) to get rid of the heater pipe which runs underneath the flapper manifold. On the GEMS, it is on the top at the driver's side.

v8250 · Post by **v8250** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:06 pm

DaveEFI wrote:You could just connect them together - or simply blank off in some way. Don't think they are needed if you don't heat the throttle.

There must be more variations on how the plumbing is done than with any other engine - just about every installation is different.

I'm intending using a GEMS inlet on my SD1 (it has a MegaSquirt) to get rid of the heater pipe which runs underneath. On the GEMS, it is on the top at the driver's side.

As above, I'll join them so no hot spot in the inlet manifold. Too right about the variations of coolant hose layout...I guess where the trusty Rover V8 has been used in so many applications, each manufacturer has taken their own individual routes...there must be 100's. Re' taking heater flow via driver's side, this makes sense and is as the MG RV8. Also, if needing a good heater valve, the original 16mm RV8 valve is available from Clive Wheatley. I'm using this on my conversion...though now got to find space to install correctly.

Dave, thank you for your help today

Ian Anderson · Post by **Ian Anderson** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:29 pm

I wouls also install a restrictor of some sort

Basically if it is fully open you can create a flow that bypasses the radiator altogether

I did this and have a 3mm hole for air bubbles and small water flow
Ian

Ian Anderson · Post by **Ian Anderson** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:29 pm

I wouls also install a restrictor of some sort

Basically if it is fully open you can create a flow that bypasses the radiator altogether

I did this and have a 3mm hole for air bubbles and small water flow
Ian

v8250 · Post by **v8250** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:20 pm

Thanks Ian, though that's now raised another question...

The near-side heater return pipe passes under and through the inlet manifold, this has a restrictor hole on its output, with the heater pipe connecting to the rear facing horizontal connection of the pump housing. There's also the take-off on this pipe [C]. So, logically I could...

1. connect [D] to the thermostat housing by-pass [this is currently tapped off]
2. blank off both C & D and not worry about this circuit.

Think I'll opt for option 2.

Re' air bubbles [potential trapped air] the highest point in my system is the radiator plug...specifically chose the Peter Mulberry radiator design for this...plus the fact upper and lower headers are of the full type + rad's 4" longer than standard, see here

http://www.mulfab.co.uk/sites/default/f ... GBGTV8.JPG

SimpleSimon · Post by **SimpleSimon** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:33 am

Those plenum small heater hoses make good bleeding points to when filling the cooling system

TVR never had this plumbed in on later cars not necessary for our climate, your never likely to see a throttle plate freeze unless your firing fuel past it i.e. carb icing

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:14 am

SimpleSimon wrote:Those plenum small heater hoses make good bleeding points to when filling the cooling system TVR never had this plumbed in on later cars not necessary for our climate, your never likely to see a throttle plate freeze unless your firing fuel past it i.e. carb icing

And heating the air intake isn't good for maximum power? Or does it cool it under some conditions?

v8250 · Post by **v8250** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:31 am

DaveEFI wrote:
SimpleSimon wrote:Those plenum small heater hoses make good bleeding points to when filling the cooling system TVR never had this plumbed in on later cars not necessary for our climate, your never likely to see a throttle plate freeze unless your firing fuel past it i.e. carb icing
And heating the air intake isn't good for maximum power? Or does it cool it under some conditions?

As Simon says and I've never heard of anyone suffering icing on a Chimaera. Logically, the opposite where they struggle with heat dispersal, same with the RV8's, a number guys cars don't like starting up after a long run on a very hot day. I've tried to manage this with good heat extraction routes and heat control, Thermal Velocity Magma exhaust wrap, manifolds exiting through the inner wings, plenum to inlet manifold heat insulator, a home brew insulated 'coffin' for the MAF and have managed to fit twin Revotec sucker fans with good cfm behind the radiator...this also has a manual override switch.

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:41 am

My SD1 had the Lucas flapper EFI. Now MegaSquirt. I put the ATS more or less where it was with the orignal AFM, in the trunking which I replaced the AFM with.

And of course it's easy to read the ATS etc with the MS software. I've seen almost 90C not long after the hot engine is stopped on a hot day. But leave it idling and the ATS reads more what you'd expect from fresh air being drawn into the engine.

I also get fuel evaporation. Have to run the pump for about 10 seconds to get the pressure correct.

v8250 · Post by **v8250** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:12 pm

DaveEFI wrote:My SD1 had the Lucas flapper EFI. Now MegaSquirt. I put the ATS more or less where it was with the orignal AFM, in the trunking which I replaced the AFM with.

And of course it's easy to read the ATS etc with the MS software. I've seen almost 90C not long after the hot engine is stopped on a hot day. But leave it idling and the ATS reads more what you'd expect from fresh air being drawn into the engine.

I also get fuel evaporation. Have to run the pump for about 10 seconds to get the pressure correct.

Dave, that's interesting. Good old fuel evaporation/heat soak can be a real irritation. I've insulated my fuel lines and may even insulate my fuel rail, when the car finally gets up and running[!], as heat soak seems a re-occurring theme. There are some RV8 guys who habitually raise their bonnets on very hot days 10-15mins before they're due to drive off as they know the cars won't start without the aid of cooler fresh air.

I've a lot of experience with V8 carb' set-ups suffering from heat soak with cars poor to start and/or lumpy start-up and lumpy running. I've used insulated air boxes to good effect giving two +ve's, 1. concentrated and balanced air input, 2. effective heat resistance with cooler air in all weathers. I have thought to may be insulate the plenum neck and air feed should there be any soak issues. Realistically, it's just down to control of heat transfer and providing some level of thermal resistance. I like Thermal Velocity products, here's a link to there twin walled insulation sheeting, it's easily pliable so one can construct all sorts of shapes.

http://www.thermalvelocity.co.uk/Heat-S ... p-113-476/

And sadly...I'm a sucker for any product that goes by the names of MagmaShield, Vulcan and MagmaWrap; Q embarrassment and empty wallet!