"Brit"part oil filter!

DaviesDJ · Post by **DaviesDJ** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:07 pm

Dear all, have just had a. Lille of weeks of annoying niggles after getting my cylinder heads and camshaft a back on.

Firstly had the cam timed out by a massive degree due to a minor error on the multi-key timing set. Then a series of problems involving air locks in my oil cooler and a sticky pressure relief piston causing me to take one week to get an oil pressure! After almost setting fire to my car after the third time of removing the timing cover and draining the coolant!

But - I wanted to share the crowning turd in the water pipe! Whilst in John Cradocks the other day I picked up a couple of bring part oil filters as they were very cheap! And thought that I would put one on for the initi startup and cam run in - after 30 minutes drop the oil and that filter then replace it with a decent quality K&N one with fresh oil (both lots with zinc additive).

Cam run in went ok. But today (48 hours later with the engine standing idle), went to start up again (with the britpart filter on- just to check everything again before connecting the oil cooler and going for a drive) and then.. No oil pressure! I then realise that these oil fters have no one way valve mechanism and it has de-primed itself! So tomorow out will come the drill again and I will have to re-prime again. This also apparently has led to the odd flicker of loss of pressure at hot idle so I read??

Has anybody else heared of this problem or experienced it? Is it common with this kind of item??? I think it may also have been made more likely to happen when I drained the oil when it was hot- that would draw a vaccum on the oil pickup etc and make this worse??

Cheers all

Dave

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:28 pm

Not experienced that myself. I always use genuine parts oil filters from Rimmer Bros.

Chris.

SimpleSimon · Post by **SimpleSimon** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:26 pm

If indeed this is your problem no need to use cheapo branded filters like this IMO when you can pick up Mahle, Bosch, Hengst, Mann, UFI etc etc all brands I would trust for about a fiver a piece

jrv8 · Post by **jrv8** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:53 pm

Hi ,
It's more likely to be a sticking oil pressure relief valve than a faulty filter.

Jim
jrv8.co.uk

DaviesDJ · Post by **DaviesDJ** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:06 am

Well prior to fitting a new filter I intend to change back to my stronger spring setup so I shall check the piston once more, but I have read on a few forums this type of problem. And whatever is the case I will never buy cheap oil filters again, even if it was only for a brief run-in.

jrv8 · Post by **jrv8** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:59 am

DaviesDJ wrote:I shall check the piston once more.

Did you replace the piston with a new one when you were in there the last time ?

Jim

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:17 pm

Assuming the normal 45 degree or whatever mounting, would any filter drain down?

DaviesDJ · Post by **DaviesDJ** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:10 pm

Update: kept the brut part filter in situ - and just put the drill tool down to re-prime the pump. With one hand on the filter I felt the flow commence into the filter after about 10 seconds! Engine then started and instant oil pressure. Light out. So it appears that the theory was correct - these filters don't hold their prime - never had this problem before with any other filter. The piston and spring of the oil pump were changed prior to startup. I you search the Landy forums you see a few people commenting on these filters without non-returns.

mgbv8 · Post by **mgbv8** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:22 pm

I'm not sure why the filters need a non return valve. I only have experience of Halfords HF202 filters. Then again my oil filter is remote and above the engine. But Jason has the filter on the pump in his Escort and he uses the same filters?

Actually, I can see what the non return valve would do because when i prime my engine from a fresh build and take the drill off I can see the oil drive running backwards for a couple of seconds. But as Dave says' the filter hangs out the bottom of the pump so it should not be able to drain out?

Even after standing for 3 months my engine makes pressure within a few seconds of starting.

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:40 pm

I can see the benefit of a non-return on a remote mounted filter, but as has been stated, I can't see why it matters on a conventional mounting.

Chris.

DaviesDJ · Post by **DaviesDJ** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:05 pm

As I said I have never experienced this before, and have just been reading other threads mentioning this. And it seems to have "re-primed" itself now, and it seems to fit my problem. But I am going to take the oil pump off once more to treble check everything on the weekend. When the oil is removed quickly perhaps it could have created a vacuum dragging out the oil form the pump gears???

http://www.lpgforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8024

http://forum.landrovernet.com/archive/i ... 70342.html

Cest la vie - back running so all is well - Santa pod here I come this month:-) lovely LSD came in the post today to replace when the basic diff I have gets ruined!!

DaviesDJ · Post by **DaviesDJ** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:12 pm

There is no rubber non return visible on the k&n and halfords filters I have - but none visible on the britpart

DEVONMAN · Post by **DEVONMAN** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:59 pm

DaviesDJ wrote:There is no rubber non return visible on the k&n and halfords filters I have - but none visible on the britpart

Filters may have a non return mechanism or a bypass valve or both.

The bypass valve is visible at the bottom if you look down through the centre hole of the filter.
The non return mechanism takes the form of a rubber disc which is positioned inside the filter can behind the perimeter inlet holes. If you can pour oil straight through these holes then there is no non return valve fitted. The rubber disc should appear to be blocking these perimeter holes.

Without the non return mechanism their will be a possibility that the oil galleries will drain down towards the sump and in some cases the sump pickup pipe will syphon oil out of the pump/filter and cause delay to pressure build on start up and in unusual/rare cases, the pump may not automatically self prime.

The bypass valve will open when the filter is clogged so as to allow sufficent oil to reach the engine. However some crud parked in the filter can will also get through.

The valve can also open if the engine is over reved from cold when the oil is thick.

SimpleSimon · Post by **SimpleSimon** » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:02 pm

DEVONMAN wrote:
DaviesDJ wrote:There is no rubber non return visible on the k&n and halfords filters I have - but none visible on the britpart
Filters may have a non return mechanism or a bypass valve or both.

The bypass valve is visible at the bottom if you look down through the centre hole of the filter.
The non return mechanism takes the form of a rubber disc which is positioned inside the filter can behind the perimeter inlet holes. If you can pour oil straight through these holes then there is no non return valve fitted. The rubber disc should appear to be blocking these perimeter holes.

Without the non return mechanism their will be a possibility that the oil galleries will drain down towards the sump and in some cases the sump pickup pipe will syphon oil out of the pump/filter and cause delay to pressure build on start up and in unusual/rare cases, the pump may not automatically self prime.

The bypass valve will open when the filter is clogged so as to allow sufficent oil to reach the engine. However some crud parked in the filter can will also get through. The valve can also open if the engine is over reved from cold when the oil is thick.

On some poor quality filters the oil bypass valve may actually be omitted

bigaldart · Post by **bigaldart** » Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:04 pm

Interesting subject to us, we have been having lots of trouble keeping prime and getting prime in the first place in the last couple of years. We always used the Fram HP 1 or 2 for years with no issues, then they became scarce and we used the K&N. More recently we have been using the Moroso filter that Real Steel stock, I wonder if this is the cause of our issues. Drain back could be a real issue as the car in the trailer sits with the front wheels 4 ft in the air so the filter would be a lot closer to Horizontal. We can't use Coopers or OEM style filters as they blow apart on start up, we get a lot of revs quickly with cold oil on initial start up and it generally splits the seams on standard filters.

any suggestion for a high Pressure rated filter with a non-return valve? Parts number and Manufacturer please. Gear pump front cover, not the crank driven type.

A point regarding a bypass, when the bypass is open it is because the filter is clogged, when it opens you are not filtering the oil at all! A low setting on the bypass will open it sooner.

Cheers

Alan