I know there have been many posts comparing the relative heights of the Edel and Offy etc but I am after a specific measurement if anyone can help out.
I researching putting one on my 4.6 and if anyone is in the throws of building an engine you might be able to help.
I am after the height from the top of the manifold (carb mounting surface) relative to the top of the later style flat top rocker covers.
Thanks heaps, Graeme
Help with Edelbrock Performer manifold height for Rover v8
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A lot of Rover guys don't use the standard Rover rocker covers so you might better off using another reference point on the engine, maybe the valley gasket under the manifold up to the face of the manifold where the carb mounts on to. One thing to note is that the carb mounting face of the Eddy manifold is not parallel to the valley, from memory the carb leans forward.
In my humble I'd avoid the Offy dual port anyway, it does not flow all that well and will dampen down any other tuning work that you do.
In my humble I'd avoid the Offy dual port anyway, it does not flow all that well and will dampen down any other tuning work that you do.
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mike-b
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Hi Graeme, I have the eddy performer manifold fitted to my rover.
The top of the manifold ( carb gasket ) is exactly level with my flat top SD1 style rocker covers, A straight edge across the two covers shows it to be so. Also the carb gasket surface of manifold would be perfectly level if the manifold were to be placed on a flat and level surface.
In some engine fittings the engine sits at an angle - i.e. lower at the back and thus the carb too. Dependant on how bad the angle is you may need a "Leveling plate" to make the car level relative to the ground rather than the engine. My engine sits about 5-degrees lower at the back however I have never needed a leveling plate.
If you must fit a 14-inch round filter make sure its 3-inch deep if space will allow it, these filters virtually wrap themselves round the carb and a 3-inch deep filter works better than the 2-inch.
Hope that helps, regards, mike
The top of the manifold ( carb gasket ) is exactly level with my flat top SD1 style rocker covers, A straight edge across the two covers shows it to be so. Also the carb gasket surface of manifold would be perfectly level if the manifold were to be placed on a flat and level surface.
In some engine fittings the engine sits at an angle - i.e. lower at the back and thus the carb too. Dependant on how bad the angle is you may need a "Leveling plate" to make the car level relative to the ground rather than the engine. My engine sits about 5-degrees lower at the back however I have never needed a leveling plate.
If you must fit a 14-inch round filter make sure its 3-inch deep if space will allow it, these filters virtually wrap themselves round the carb and a 3-inch deep filter works better than the 2-inch.
Hope that helps, regards, mike
Mike B Drives a 1984 Mk2 Granada ghia V8.
I had the manifold to head gasket faces machined on my Eddy 180 and the machine shop that did the work said that the carb gasket face is not level if the manifold is mounted on a level engine, from memory it tips forward 5 degrees. You can see this angle if you look at a bare manifold that has not been fitted to an engine.
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mike-b
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Hi Sidecar, Sorry to come back on this one and I have no intention of arguing with you or saying your wrong, very far from it. However, my eddy "Performer" a 180 does sit level with the rocker cover tops both front and back of carb at the carb gasket.
I was told when I first bought the thing that I may need a leveling plate so the carb sat level with the ground rather than the engine, the engine being at an angle. My carb works perfectly well without a leveling plate. The carb sits at the same angle as the engine due to the manifold being level in the first place..
Edelbrock may have changed the pattern thus giving you the choice, mine is only two years old and was brand new when bought.
Why they should turn out different I do not know - but obviously they do.
Regards, Mike
I was told when I first bought the thing that I may need a leveling plate so the carb sat level with the ground rather than the engine, the engine being at an angle. My carb works perfectly well without a leveling plate. The carb sits at the same angle as the engine due to the manifold being level in the first place..
Edelbrock may have changed the pattern thus giving you the choice, mine is only two years old and was brand new when bought.
Why they should turn out different I do not know - but obviously they do.
Regards, Mike
Mike B Drives a 1984 Mk2 Granada ghia V8.
Thanks Mike-B, I don't doubt your techique or the measurement but it seems quite surprising. I have an Offy 360deg single plane that I have had a little machined off but it sits 55mm lower than the top of the rocker covers. From your measurement this means that the performer manifold is over 2" higher. I have read it is maybe 0.62" higher (maybe 0.8-1" given I have taken a bit of the Offy) but not much more.
Do you mid, would it be too much to ask, taking a measurement, as sidecar suggested, from the carb mounting surface down to the middle of the valley cover at the back of the manifold and even the front if possible. Or any other datum point that you can think of that would transfer between different engines.
Thank you very much in advance, Graeme
Do you mid, would it be too much to ask, taking a measurement, as sidecar suggested, from the carb mounting surface down to the middle of the valley cover at the back of the manifold and even the front if possible. Or any other datum point that you can think of that would transfer between different engines.
Thank you very much in advance, Graeme
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mike-b
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Hi Graeme,
This measurement is from the carb / manifold gasket to the bottom ( deepest part ) of the valley gasket.
The front ( rad end ) is exactly 133mm and the rear is exactly the same 133mm. As you already know that is dead level with the flat top of my SD1 style rocker covers.
If you use the Edelbock "Performer" manifold - as I have - you will NOT have a bypass pipe fitted to it. This is the pipe that goes under the inlet manifold If S.U. carbs are fitted on the standard job and via a hose ends up at the heater. There is a heater hose connection on the rear of the eddy manifold for the other hose required.
I can only give you the measurements of what I have fitted, as my manifold was brand new when I bought it I have to assume it is correct. Should you require more measurements just ask - no problem.
Regards, Mike.
This measurement is from the carb / manifold gasket to the bottom ( deepest part ) of the valley gasket.
The front ( rad end ) is exactly 133mm and the rear is exactly the same 133mm. As you already know that is dead level with the flat top of my SD1 style rocker covers.
If you use the Edelbock "Performer" manifold - as I have - you will NOT have a bypass pipe fitted to it. This is the pipe that goes under the inlet manifold If S.U. carbs are fitted on the standard job and via a hose ends up at the heater. There is a heater hose connection on the rear of the eddy manifold for the other hose required.
I can only give you the measurements of what I have fitted, as my manifold was brand new when I bought it I have to assume it is correct. Should you require more measurements just ask - no problem.
Regards, Mike.
Mike B Drives a 1984 Mk2 Granada ghia V8.
I have a performer manifold and I took a couple of pics for you. Unfortunately I don´t have spare heads so I can´t measure the height on a block.
However, I measured the height of the carb flange to the top edge of the manifold flange. It is marked with yellow lines on the first photo. The dimension is about 58 mm or 2,25" whichever you prefer. This should give you a rough estimate to compare with the Offy manifold. I measured it in the middle of the cylinder head (direct line from the port wall between cylinders 5&7 and 3&5)
This photo shows the profile of Performer manifold.
However, I measured the height of the carb flange to the top edge of the manifold flange. It is marked with yellow lines on the first photo. The dimension is about 58 mm or 2,25" whichever you prefer. This should give you a rough estimate to compare with the Offy manifold. I measured it in the middle of the cylinder head (direct line from the port wall between cylinders 5&7 and 3&5)
This photo shows the profile of Performer manifold.
Muscle Manta and I are currently building a Rover 4.6 lump with an Edelbrock 180 manifold, the manifold is about 6 months old. (The same type of manifold is about 6 years old on my car)
At the moment the heads and the manifold are fitted to the engine and nothing else, a straight edge has been placed on the gasket face which runs along the length of the engine past the thermostat housing and also out towards the rear of the engine. A measurement was then taken straight down from this striaght edge to the valley gasket right at the point where the gasket clamps are fitted. The measurement at the rear was 145mm, the measurement at the front was 123mm, that’s a difference of 22mm which is far more than any error in measuring would induce.
Doing the measuring as above is the only accurate way that I can see that this can be done because it is not possible to measure straight down to the valley gasket from just in front of the mounting point of the carb due to the design of the manifold.
If I could be bothered to do the maths or even sketch out the measurements full size on a piece of paper I reckon that the carb face would be 5 degrees off vertical.
At the moment the heads and the manifold are fitted to the engine and nothing else, a straight edge has been placed on the gasket face which runs along the length of the engine past the thermostat housing and also out towards the rear of the engine. A measurement was then taken straight down from this striaght edge to the valley gasket right at the point where the gasket clamps are fitted. The measurement at the rear was 145mm, the measurement at the front was 123mm, that’s a difference of 22mm which is far more than any error in measuring would induce.
Doing the measuring as above is the only accurate way that I can see that this can be done because it is not possible to measure straight down to the valley gasket from just in front of the mounting point of the carb due to the design of the manifold.
If I could be bothered to do the maths or even sketch out the measurements full size on a piece of paper I reckon that the carb face would be 5 degrees off vertical.
Thanks heaps Minorv8 and Sidecar that's awesome and helps heaps. Sidecar has the vertical measurement taken down the valley cover gasket with the end clamps in place? If so was the measurement taken right at the "inner" edge of the end caps?
Mike-b, I took some measurements today and if I was confused before, I am really confused now. The car is at a workshop at the moment so didn't have much time. The carby is fitted and didn't have time to take it off so worked around it. I put a straight edge on the air filter mounting flange on the carb and then took a vertical measurement in the middle (between the rocker covers) down to the lower point in the valley cover right at the back of the manifold where the water outlet is. The measurement is 205mm. I know the carb height from manifold mounting face to air filter flange is 82mm (I think I can safely assume the top and bottom planes of the carb are parallel) so the height from the centre of the valley cover to manifold carb mounting flange is 123mm - only 10mm lower than your measurement which doesn't seem to make sense give the other research I have done and the other measurements you took.
I will take more measurement tomorrow inline with what Minorv8 and Sidecar have posted.
Thanks to all involved for your time and effort to help out and take measurements. Cheers Graeme.
Mike-b, I took some measurements today and if I was confused before, I am really confused now. The car is at a workshop at the moment so didn't have much time. The carby is fitted and didn't have time to take it off so worked around it. I put a straight edge on the air filter mounting flange on the carb and then took a vertical measurement in the middle (between the rocker covers) down to the lower point in the valley cover right at the back of the manifold where the water outlet is. The measurement is 205mm. I know the carb height from manifold mounting face to air filter flange is 82mm (I think I can safely assume the top and bottom planes of the carb are parallel) so the height from the centre of the valley cover to manifold carb mounting flange is 123mm - only 10mm lower than your measurement which doesn't seem to make sense give the other research I have done and the other measurements you took.
I will take more measurement tomorrow inline with what Minorv8 and Sidecar have posted.
Thanks to all involved for your time and effort to help out and take measurements. Cheers Graeme.
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Muscle-Manta
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mike-b
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Hi Graeme - muscle-manta & sidecar.
I can now positively state there is a difference between these two inlet manifolds even though they are both without doubt Edelbrock Performers.
Where muscle-manta measured the carb gasket to valley he shows a different measurement between his front and rear, his front as mine is just about the same at 133mm. However mine is that same measurement ( 133 ) at the back as well and measured in the same way too. The rear in the picture shows 145mm mine is 133mm at the rear. By the way I bought my manifold brand new and it has never been altered in any way.
Into the manifold the Words "Edelbrock" & "Performer" are part of the cast. So has mine in exactly the same place, however the picture(s) shown also show a "3.5" ( something) also part of the cast, mine has NOT got that. So there is a difference and something you may need to note when you get your manifold.
Sidecar ... You of course were right regarding your manifold, I am also right regarding mine. Seems to me there are two different "Performer" manifolds by Edelbrock, we have just proved it !!! Amazing ..... Bloody amazing - what happened to continuity?
Regards to all, Mike
I can now positively state there is a difference between these two inlet manifolds even though they are both without doubt Edelbrock Performers.
Where muscle-manta measured the carb gasket to valley he shows a different measurement between his front and rear, his front as mine is just about the same at 133mm. However mine is that same measurement ( 133 ) at the back as well and measured in the same way too. The rear in the picture shows 145mm mine is 133mm at the rear. By the way I bought my manifold brand new and it has never been altered in any way.
Into the manifold the Words "Edelbrock" & "Performer" are part of the cast. So has mine in exactly the same place, however the picture(s) shown also show a "3.5" ( something) also part of the cast, mine has NOT got that. So there is a difference and something you may need to note when you get your manifold.
Sidecar ... You of course were right regarding your manifold, I am also right regarding mine. Seems to me there are two different "Performer" manifolds by Edelbrock, we have just proved it !!! Amazing ..... Bloody amazing - what happened to continuity?
Regards to all, Mike
Mike B Drives a 1984 Mk2 Granada ghia V8.
