It still won't start!

BrenG · Post by **BrenG** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:52 am

After weeks of trying unsuccessfully to get my VDP EFi SD1 go I have chucked in the towel.

New plugs cap and arm have made no difference.

After prolonged cranking it splutters then dies - when I get out of the car the garage reeks of very rich exhaust fumes.

I have tried setting it up as detailed by the members on this forum, I may be doing something wrong or maybe something is'nt working properly?

I have noticed when cranking the speedo needle is all over the place.

I have a spark, fuel and air - the only thing I cannot see is if fuel is getting into the engine - after being stood for so long I thought the injectors might be clogged.

Years ago there were mobile tuners who could sort this out - however they all seem to have gone now as cars have changed so much.

Any more advice appreciated - I am running out of enthusiasm now, if I can't get it going then I will probably break it up for spares.

softdash3.9 · Post by **softdash3.9** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:53 am

Could be many things but.......

If the dissy cap and arm OEM? some of the spurios ons are rubbish, been caught out myself on my Range Rover, quick check is to remove the cap, hold the king lead above the rotor arm and crank, there should be no spark, if there is the rotor is goosed, as it is shorting to earth and it shouldn't!!.

Do you have fuel pressure?

With the ignition on open the flapper you should hear the fuel pump kick in, keep the flapper open until you hear the pressure regulator start dumping fuel back to tank, you then know the pressure side is full of fuel and purged of air, I have experience the fuel regulator not purging after standing for a while so has no pressure/is full of air, engine will fire occasionally, but not fire up.

You state you have sparks, how did you check?, spark can break down in the cylinder, where as a spark plug in air will work OK. Could have a fault with ignition.

Can you hear the injector ticking during cranking, is the white black wire on the coil, it may have a resistor in the circuit (600 Ohm iirc)

Just a few pointers

Ian Anderson · Post by **Ian Anderson** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:01 pm

As you say you have a petrol smell out the exhaust after prolonged cranking I would presume your fuel is fetting into the engine

So I would then look at the spark side of things

Check for TDC on No1 and make sure the wires go to the correct plug - so often you hear "I connected it as before" but the blug wires are going to the wrong cylinders

Then if it still does not start add a permanent positive feed via crocodile clip or similar from battery to coil to ensure you are getting full 12v when cranking

Ian

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:25 pm

Have you checked the EFI coolant sensor? Next to the thermotime switch.
That should measure at approx 2500 ohms (between its terminals) at 20C. A faulty one will usually read very much higher than that. If it is open circuit, the ECU will supply fuelling for a very cold start.

If you have flooded it, crank on full throttle.

But have you checked you have a decent spark at the plugs? If the plug leads are old one or more may have failed. They can be checked again with a DVM - remove and measure their resistance. They will vary - but will be approx 2000 ohms per foot of length. Check the coil to dizzy lead too - these often corrode where they plug into the coil.

You're unlikely to find a mobile mechanic familiar with the Lucas injection system. They weren't when it was current.

Plenty of expertise on the SD1 Club forum as well as here. Ramon Alban has a decent fault finding guide on his site:-

http://www.vintagemodelairplane.com/

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:29 pm

Basics first.

You say you have spark. So do you have spark ( on all 8 ), and at the correct time ? If you cannot confirm this, there is little point continuing.

You say you have fuel....so are the plugs wet or dry ?

If soaked, bin them and fit new ones.

If totally dry...then I would have to say you do not have sufficient fuel to start an engine. So why do you believe you have fuel ? Investigate why no fuel is being injected.

Are the injectors getting a signal ? Very easy to test with a voltmeter with either pulse width, or duty cycle.
Or you can remove the entire rail and injectors and do a proper visual that all 8 are spraying.

If no fuel, is the pump running ? Are the injectors receiving 12v ?

Once the above have been confirmed and rectified if required, start engine.

Jono FD3 · Post by **Jono FD3** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:41 am

Another question to ask is, what colour is the spark.... should be a bright electric blue, if it's an orange spark you have a fault in which case it could be leads, rotor arm, dizzy cap or coil breaking down!

Jono

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:08 am

Download and read. This is the Land Rover Workshop Manual for the EFi system. It is what the garage would have used.

http://www.cowdery.org.uk/downloads/Fla ... ual.tar.gz

It's about 130Mbytes.

Chris.

BrenG · Post by **BrenG** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:40 pm

I noticed a few weeks back that the rotor arm was difficult to remove - it had corroded on to the shaft - when it came off and I fitted the new one it was difficult to fit the new cap - it was as if the rotor arm was too tall.

After some faffing about I got it to go back together - it was as if the shaft had come out.I have checked each plug in turn when cranking and there is a white coloured spark.

It it possible I have damaged the dizzy and this is the cause of my problems?
Would it still provide a spark in air but fail to do it's job?

Apologies for my ineptitude - this is the most involved I have been with a car's ignition system. But if you don't have a go you don't learn.

softdash3.9 · Post by **softdash3.9** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:48 pm

Been there and done it, this may help

http://www.v8forum.co.uk/forum/viewtopi ... highlight=

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:43 pm

The speedo jumping around is a clue. The sensor for that gets its power from the same feed (white wire) as the ignition. Connect a voltmeter to the white wire on the coil (coil +) and ground, and see what it reads with the engine cranking. It should read a fairly steady battery volts - around 10-11 when cranking. My guess is it won't. If it is reading below about 9 volts, that's not enough for a decent spark. (a good DVM which holds min and max would help here)

You could also switch on the front wipers with the DVM connected to the coil.
That comes off the same main feed, so will show up a poor connection. And doesn't involve using the starter.

If you do get a low reading report back and I'll give some likely things to check.

BrenG · Post by **BrenG** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:51 am

Dave,

I have eliminated the valve timing - everything is ok. I will replace the chainset anyway.

So could my problem be a faulty coil? I will try what you suggest when everything is back together.