engine pull down! The search for my lost power!!

General Chat About Engine Build

Moderator: phpBB2 - Administrators

Post Reply
nosman
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:25 pm

engine pull down! The search for my lost power!!

Post by nosman »

Right, basically, car sluggish, overheating terribly, few people inc Trevor at the wizards of nos suggested the cam was probably shot, so i decided to replace it and refresh the motor after athorough inspection!

Shes been built about 18 years, did it at my parents, with the help of my dad. Done i estimate conservatively 60,000 miles, used to use it every day to go to work up until recently. Been driven in anger a lot at York raceway, been to Belguim with classic ford, and has had 75 or 100 BHP of Trevors finest injected for about 6 years on the button, no progressive! all fitted and jetted by me.

Has been run wit zero oil pressure many times, due to sticking pressure relief valve, zero fuel pressure on 100bhp of gas due to me cocking up the fuel pumps, many 7000 rpm burnouts and line crosses, right up until my last visit at york!

so anyhow, i have just pulled a slug to check the oversize on the bigends, and thought id share howshe looks, im a gutted it isnt completely shot having lost allegedly 70bhp!! it used to make 220 at the wheels at my favourite rollers, which im told is impossible, all i know is i used the same guy, so if it went up or down i knew id made a difference!

All comments welcome, good or bad!

Heads off, very clean piston tops, zero DET, i just wiped the muck off one to see how much carbon was present, which was bugger all!
Image

Bores have a very tiny bit of a wear lip, but its negligable, maybe a thou or 2!
Image

crank area, all the nice ARP studs and bolts mmmmm!
Image

Image

cam chain, metal gears, stretched but ive seen worse!
Image
Image

cam lobes, not as toasted as i was hoping! even the last 4 are nt showing any signs of major wear!
Image

lifters(rhoads) all pretty normal stuff, now concave mind you!
Image
Image

Crank, has a slight score wear some swarfe has picked out of the oil hole, but certainly wont need a grind if they are all this good!
Image
Image

Piston, sides wiped to inspect blow by, but topp as removed!

Image
Image
Image

And the big ends, some wear but hey its not a new engine!! cap side
Image

And top, certainly more wear, but better than expected to be fair, no scoring thank god apart from that mentioned earlier,
Image

Must be an easier way to get to the starter motor!

Image

So, all in no major wear, i have yet to inspect the valves ad guides, has it had a healthy oil habit, that certainly wasnt from the bores! so im expecting to have to change at least the guides, think i will use real steels phosphor bronze numbers to try and rteleive some of the side loading wear associated with cropped guides. My mate and i have summized that all the little bits of wear are sapping the power, mixed with the timing issues of the stretched chain etc, and im hoping for a new lease of life after the rebuild

one last point, what hydraulic lifters are people using, i have read that sd1 lifters rev to 6500rpm without float, is this true, as im not over keen on the rhoads as they amplify the camminessgiving very little below 3500rpm, but i need to hold the revs a bit to make full advantage of the cam (usually shift at 5500 - 6000 and i only have a 4 speed box so need this to cross the line as i run out of gears!)


sidecar
Top Dog
Top Dog
Posts: 2399
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:52 pm

Post by sidecar »

It all just looks a bit worn out, I guess a 'normal rebuild would sort it out. The timing chain is well knackered!

I think that the standard lifters are really only any good for 5800. I'm sure that if you have a big enough lead foot they will rev higher but they are supposed to be pumping up above that figure. I also don't like Rhoads lifters although I thought that they are supposed to improve the bottom end by bleeding down at low RPM.

'Isky' lifters are supposed to be good for 7000 RPM. I know a bloke that has a brand new set for sale!

Not sure that the cast pistons and many of the other standard components are going to like those sort of revs though! :shock:
katanaman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3081
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:29 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Post by katanaman »

Cant see anything that would mean 70bhp but I bet your crank needs ground looking at the shells. Coper shells = wear even if it isnt scored. Before you take the heads apart pour some petrol down the ports, that will tell you how good/bad the valves are. Did you do a compression test before you took it all apart?
nosman
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:25 pm

Post by nosman »

yea i comp checked it early doors, it was maybe 5 psi down, but seeing as the starter was struggling to spool it over more than around 8 rpm, i figured that would affect the results sightly!

the cranks not bad, thats the worst shell, some ligh scoring but its been ground 20 and 10 thou in the past respectively, and to be fair it hadnt dropped much oil pressure, so it will probably be fine, i will check with the oracles micrometers first (my dad)

as for the revs, shes been happy to scream to death forever, the rods are reputed to only be good for 5500, but touching wood mine seem fine past that with the arp fixings, i think if i was holding the rpm, say on a circuit it would be history, but for a couple of seconds its fine

I think my lost power has gone up(down?) the valve guides, just took an inlets collets off and it fell straight out, the guide is more 0 than O!!! Thats what you get for running cropped guides though eh?!
sidecar
Top Dog
Top Dog
Posts: 2399
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:52 pm

Post by sidecar »

nosman wrote:
The guide is more 0 than O!!! Thats what you get for running cropped guides though eh?!
More likely due to bad valve train geometry, it's not great even with a standard cam, it gets worse with a high lift jobbie. The icing on the cake (For making it bad) is then fitting shims under the pedestals!

One method of sorting it out is getting the pedestal bosses machined then using adjustable pushrods....Not that cheap.

I bet the wear at the top of each guide is towards the rocker shafts.
nosman
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:25 pm

Post by nosman »

its hard to tell by eye, and the baltic temperature, but the old fella says the crank looks fine, but to check for ovalety, so thats tomorrows task so i can order some shells monday if alls ok, number 1 and 2 journal is the worst and that checked out fine initially, so i will clean her up and have a very carefull measure tomorrow!

the rockers are past their best too, im going to fit fresh ones once the heads are done (newvalves, guides, seals and a touch more porting on the exh side)
CastleMGBV8
Top Dog
Top Dog
Posts: 2334
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:09 pm
Location: Sidcup, Kent, UK

Post by CastleMGBV8 »

Just a guess looking at the pic of the cam cog for the distributor drive, it would appear quite worn which is not unusual.

Worn drive gear to the dizzy could have caused erratic and retarded timing, probably enough to substantially reduce power and if the advance curve in the dizzy was also faulty could add up to your power loss.

Which dizzy, not a Mallory is it?

Kevin
nosman
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:25 pm

Post by nosman »

no its a rover DM8, with the remote amplifier

since ive taken the cam out, its fairly clear its shot in a big way! I think thats where the powers gone to be fair, the cam gear was new when i lats rebuilt the engine, so it hasnt done intergalactic mileage, although to be fair i havent really taken a close look, probably take a look tomorrow
stevieturbo
Forum Contributor
Forum Contributor
Posts: 4054
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:22 pm
Location: Northern Ireland

Post by stevieturbo »

I dont see how the cam can be in good nick, when the lifters arent even flat.
9.85 @ 144.75mph
202mph standing mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0
Post Reply

Return to “Engines Area”