Starting problem after new cam.

Bobbybedtime · Post by **Bobbybedtime** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:01 pm

Hi all,
This is my first post and I'm hoping some one can help.
I have a TVR 350i that I bought last April, it was a non runner and had been SORN for about 8 years. After doing some work on chassis etc I got the car MOT'd in about July. Within 124miles I had a bit of an engine problem. Turns out bot head ghaskets were blowing, pressurising the timing cover and blowing oil out. I pulled the heads off, did the usual work and also found two lobes missing from the cam, so replaced the cam.
So its taken me since August last year to get to where I am now, work commitmtents dragged on which is why it took so long.
So, last Saturday I primmed the fuel, oil and filled with water, turned the key and it would not fire.
Cam timing set to standard, No 1 cyclinder set to TDC on compression, rotor arm set to no 1 on the distributer, all leads in correct place.
I tried all sorts of ignition timing and eventually got it to run on say about four cycliners but had rotated the distributer about 45 deg anti clock wise from No1 position.
I was wondering if the fact I had new followers and quite posibly they were not full of oil. Could this effect the enginine running as I'm guessing the valves were not moving to much.
Today I spun the oil pump up on a drill and tried again, got it running on 'more' cycliners but very lumpy and very noisey.
Has anyone had similar experience?
Regards,
BBT.

topcatcustom · Post by **topcatcustom** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:23 pm

Hi, what cam and followers have you used? What dissy do you have and did you rebuild it too?

Bobbybedtime · Post by **Bobbybedtime** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:52 pm

Hi TC,
Its a Piper fast road cam, new hydraulic followers, pushrods, rockers and shafts (preload set). With out going to the garage ... as far as I know its the standard run of the mill distributer. Did the work myself.
Regards,
BBT.

seight · Post by **seight** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:24 pm

Hello,
Assuming you've got the cam in right I guess either you could have mixed up your plug leads on the dissy cap or you've got the dissy 180 degrees out - you wouldn't be the first !.
Mike

topcatcustom · Post by **topcatcustom** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:38 pm

You really need to be a bit careful with this initial running in as a new cam should have about 20mins non stop of 2-2.5k rpm to bed in from first fire up, are you using SU/Zenith carbs with the normal twin manifold- and did you notice what cylinders were firing?

Each carb on the standard inlet manfold feeds the middle 2 cylinders of the opposite bank and the outer 2 of the same side bank, if you had 2 on each bank firing it could be a carb problem?

Have you checked all the plugs and which ones are you using? Sometimes with modern plugs if they get flooded they lose the will to live ever again for some reason as a couple of people on here have found out.

Bobbybedtime · Post by **Bobbybedtime** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:53 pm

Thanks TC,
Its running a flapper EFI. Was aware of needing to run in as you described, think I've messed that up, I waited until I had time to lube camshaft, re assemble and fire up in one day, gutted to be honest. Will pull plugs and check. Did you have any thoughs on the hydraulic lifters. I read they need a couple of minutes at a couple of thousand revs before they are working properly. Without oil in them they won't be opening the valves...

Mike,
I've checked and double checked the leads and altered the timing 180 deg, each time I did this I got some serious back fire in the plenum. In principle it seems straight forward enough but ... well some thing wrong somewhere.

Regards,
BBT.

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:20 am

In my experience, the lifters prime up instantly when there is oil pressure, so I wouldn't worry about them.

Backfiring into the plenum does indicate a bad timing problem....

It might also be worth checking all the sensors are working within spec by measuring them at the ECU multiplug.

Did you remember to put the earth connection back onto the rear of the 'odd' head?

Chris.

topcatcustom · Post by **topcatcustom** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:40 am

Injection!

Sorry this is now out of my hands

Darkspeed · Post by **Darkspeed** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:20 pm

Is the rotor arm lining up with the spark plug post when at the timing mark.

I always make sure the rotor and plug is correct by taking out the number one plug marking the the post position on the dizzy and then turn the engine over - the PHUTT from the plug hole needed to correspond with the rotor lining up.

That give me a rough guide then I line it up at 10degree BTDC static and make sure that either points or the ststor are in the right location.

Then make sure that the leads are going to the right places in the right order.

If it dont start then I go back and check again

Andrew

SuperV8 · Post by **SuperV8** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:33 pm

Check all your injectors.

Over half of mine were clogged with fuel. Rig up an air line and a 3v battery (NOT 12v) to check they open.

Also check your injector connectors. you can do that via the car side of the ecu harness. Again I found 3 of my injector plugs weren't connecting. A small tweak with a screw driver and hey presto.

Tom.

kstrutt1 · Post by **kstrutt1** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:35 pm

The way I did mine was:

Remove LH rocker cover.
Turn engine over by hand until inlet valve is closing on number 1(first cyl on LH side).
Keep turning engine approx another 180 degrees to TDC (using timing marks and make sure the engine is being turned the right direction).
You are now definitely on the firing stroke of cyl no1.
remove the distributor cap and check the leading edge of the rotor arm contact is just about to come into contact with number 1 plug lead, if not adjust it until this is so.
Put the rocker cover back on and it should now start, the timing will now need setting with a strobe'.

New followers pumped up straight away, I did have a problem the last time I rebuilt it with the followers being over pumped up (I had changed the block), in this case I had to keep turning it over and leaving different cylinders with the valves under load until it eventually started on 3 or 4 cylinders, once it had been running for a few seconds it was fine.

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:12 pm

Bobbybedtime wrote:Hi TC,
Its a Piper fast road cam, new hydraulic followers, pushrods, rockers and shafts (preload set). With out going to the garage ... as far as I know its the standard run of the mill distributer. Did the work myself.
Regards,
BBT.

Good luck getting that to run properly with the standard EFI.

Post by **Coops** » Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:41 pm

DaveEFI wrote:
Bobbybedtime wrote:Hi TC,
Its a Piper fast road cam, new hydraulic followers, pushrods, rockers and shafts (preload set). With out going to the garage ... as far as I know its the standard run of the mill distributer. Did the work myself.
Regards,
BBT.
Good luck getting that to run properly with the standard EFI.

i ran the above on stock hotwire efi with no probs at all,
was good fun to drive too.

Bobbybedtime · Post by **Bobbybedtime** » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:58 pm

Mines running a flapper, but essentially is a standard engine other than fast road cam and RR FPR, not to much in the way of significant mods so was expecting it to be ok.
Have done some work since last post, wanted to get some more progress before posting again.
I checked out the injection system continuity from resistor pack to pins on ecu plug. all seemed ok.
Then decided to check FI plugs were correct. I had lined them up and kind of connected them where they fell, which seemed to make sense as they lines up distinctly with each fuel injector.
Went through the colur coding with the haynes vitesse manual and only a few colored wires matched. Decided to us some info I had found on the net to cross ref resitor pack terminals with FI plugs and positions. Found that FI plugs 3/5 & 4/6 may be around the wrong way. Changed them but had read the injectors fire in RHS/LHS banks so though this would not make a difference.
Fired it up and it ran a lot better almost, but not quite normal, lost the 'cracking' noise it was making.
Checked the info from the net against the vitesse manual and if the pin positions on the ecu are correct (net info) this suggested the injectors fire in groups 1,2,3,4, & 5,6,7,8, if this is right then changing the plugs will make a difference.
Will swap them back to double check as I cant find any info on the net other than the injectors fire 1,3,5,7, & 2,4,6,8, which doesnt add up.
Bit confused at the moment.
Regards,
BBT.

SuperV8 · Post by **SuperV8** » Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:20 am

To repeat what i've said before, i would really recommend checking your injectors actually open??? As you said the engine hasn't been run for 8 years, and I guess they would have been left with fuel in which over time can stick/ clog injectors. even with the injectors in place just use a 3v battery (NOT 12v) accross the injectors terminals. You should be able to hear/ feel small click as they open. If not they need cleaning.

Tom.