P6 Megasquirt installation, at last.

Richard P6 · Post by **Richard P6** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:58 am

A while ago, (Feb 7th 2014

) I mentioned that I had bought this

Now, a mere two and a half years later the engine bay has gone from this

To this

What a hoot that was. It does look like a bag of spaghetti has exploded in there, but under advice I didn't finalise the loom until it was running.

Now I just need to check the timing, (if I can get a smooth tickover), tidy everything up, plug in Tuner Studio and drive about a bit

PS Brace yourselves, there may be questions shortly

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:17 am

Have you fitted a Wideband O2?

I've got a near standard Vitesse unit ( with ST1 heads) with a MS2. And EDIS ignition. But started out fuel only with dizzy and went wasted spark later. EDIS works very well - but if doing it again, I'd probably use MS high current ignition drivers, rather than the EDIS module.

If you're new to MS, one tip to get a reasonable idle is to have all the cells in the VE table round idle the same value, and change them all together for the best idle. Once you have it reasonable, you can trim individual ones. Also make sure your injector dead time is correct.

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:29 am

Probably too late - but as regards the loom I start off with a Hotwire one. The cable on that generally survives very well. Remove the Lucas ECU connector and strip off the outer covering. Replace any damaged connectors that you'll use. Fit each individual circuit to the engine and run back to where MS is, binding them together with tape as you go. A Range Rover loom is usually plenty long enough. Then trim the ends to length and solder on a DB37 connector - best done on the bench with the loom removed. When happy, remove the loom and wrap it correctly. If you've made a hole on the bulkhead for the grommet that comes with the hotwire loom (or sourced a similar one) the DB37 connector minus cover will go through it.

And draw out a diagram showing the actual wire colours you've used. You'll be very glad of that in the future.

Richard P6 · Post by **Richard P6** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:58 am

Hi Dave

It's a narrow band Lambda; came with the kit. Although, I did fit a Stack Wide band a few years ago to help me tune the Weber, and it's still there but just runs a gauge on the dash now.

The wiring loom was supplied, i.e. about 20 or so rolls of wire, wrapping tape and a load of fittings. I must admit I did have fun with that lot.

Running MS1 V3 (I think) I am really new to all this and have no idea how to tune it. Just starting out so in the steep learning curve stage

There is a huge hole in the bulkhead, where the steering fits if you want LHD, so all the wiring is going through there. I'll cut a hole in the middle of the rubber bung and then fit a smaller rubber grommet into that. That way I should be able to remove the loom if I ever need to.

The engine spec (from the advert when I bought it) is:-

4 litre cross bolted V8.
Pair of stage 1 unleaded RPI engineering cylinder heads.
Piper RP4 high torque cam and followers.
Cloyes duplex timing chain and sprockets.
Lightened and balanced flywheel.
High torque gear reduction starter motor.
Mallory dual point distributor.
RPI engineering A&P electronic ignition power amp.
Correct ignition coil and ballast resistor.
Magnecor 8mm plug leads.
Offenhauser dual port inlet manifold.
Weber 500 carburettor.
J&P stainless exhaust manifolds with 13/4 primaries.
Custom 2 into 1 front section of exhaust.
Stripped and rebuilt LT77 5 speed gearbox.

Bloke spent loads of money on it then sold it to me cheap

. Weber and other stuff has obviously gone now. Picks up well though, or I hope it does if I ever get the engine tuned.

There was a wiring diagram supplied to make the loom with and I have changed it slightly, so have altered the diagram accordingly and printed it off. In the manual with the original now. I learned that lesson.

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:00 pm

Tuner Studio has VEAL - VE analyse live. If you have a half decent AFR table, and a wideband O2 connected to MS, it will do most of the tuning for you. But you do need the basic parameters for MS set correctly.

How are you doing fast idle on the 3.9 with an MS1?

Richard P6 · Post by **Richard P6** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:20 pm

DaveEFI wrote:Tuner Studio has VEAL - VE analyse live. If you have a half decent AFR table, and a wideband O2 connected to MS, it will do most of the tuning for you. But you do need the basic parameters for MS set correctly.

How are you doing fast idle on the 3.9 with an MS1?

I am getting an MSQ emailed over later so the car will run. I'll have a look at the AFR table then. Problem is, that since I took it off the road to fit the EFI, the MOT has run out. So I need it running well enough to get it to an MOT station, but I can't take it out of the garage to check it runs ok, until I have booked an MOT

Fast idle? No idea, is it a problem on MS1?

Is there anywhere that I can get an AFR table to have a look at, wouldn't mind comparing what I get with one already working somewhere.

Cheers

Richard

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:54 pm

Generally, it's not a good thing to start out with someone's tune. There are so many variables that can cause problems with a so called good tune for your engine - as no two installations are ever the same. But so saying, you may be lucky.

It's better to start with a clean sheet and use the various tools TS has for generating fresh tables etc which will be close enough to get it running.
But this does mean going through the MS manual and setting things up from scratch. One snag is MS1 is so old, the instructions haven't been updated and rationalised, unlike with MS2&3.

MS2 has a stepper motor driver built in - which will drive the fast idle stepper on the Hotwire. With MS1, you'll either have to add a stepper motor driver or devise another method for fast idle.

Richard P6 · Post by **Richard P6** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:01 pm

I am tempted to go it alone and set it up from scratch, but the chap I bought the kit from said he would set up the various parameters for me, to enable me to at least get it started. It's not his tune, it's him setting up from scratch using the details from my engine, to give me ahead start as it were.

There is certainly a lot of information on the web about the various types of MS and the more I read, the more confusing it all becomes

I do know about the stepper motor though, but wasn't sure what it did. My set up has the hole for it plugged off and I am using a PWM from a Volvo

The MS has been set up to 'see' it apparently.

I have just finished the under bonnet wiring, so am hoping the MSQ arrives very soon.

Richard P6 · Post by **Richard P6** » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:58 am

I have managed to complete the underbonnet wiring, including tidying it all up and wrapping the loom. Just need to relocate the washer bottle, and hopefully get an MOT

Inside, I have to just finish the last three feet of the loom wrapping, then get it all tucked away and refit the front seat, so getting exciting now

There is a bit of a problem with the MSQ file (the starting point for tuning), but hopefully this will be sorted soon, and I can get driving.

As usual when fitting/refitting stuff I have some bits left over. This bit came with the EDIS 8 module, anyone know what it is/does? Should I have fitted it?

and these came in the kit, anyone know what they are? or where they should go?

Cheers all

Richard

Richard P6 · Post by **Richard P6** » Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:59 pm

Got it plugged in and it runs

I did get these error messages though when I downloaded the MSQ

Not quite sure where to find these in tunerstudio?

Got the tickover stabilised by finding the bins the tickover operates in and setting them all to 42, which was a bit on the rich side. Slowly edged them down to 35, and it ran at 13.5 to 14 AFR. Then set all of the spark bins where tickover runs to 10 and it ran smoothly at around 800rpm. I put the strobe on to check the timing and got 8, so not too far away. I take it that I set the fixed angle to 10, then adjust the trigger angle until the strobe reads 10? Ran out of time though, being a hot night it's difficult to run a V8 all night with everyone having their windows open, listening to it, and smelling the fumes

Interior is back in with the main loom running along the centre tunnel under the carpet.

May have to tidy a few things, but this is finished for now. Just have an annoying radiator leak somewhere which I can't track down, and I really don't like the way the throttle cable sits there.

Just need an MOT now

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 9:02 am

You'd probably be best to ask on the MS forum about those warnings - but IIRC it's likely when loading an MSQ file to a different code version.

Without MS connected, if you double click on the MSQ file it should start TS and load into it. Do you then get any warnings?

Thing is that MS1 is a bit different in that there's not been much work done on the code for ages. And I don't know much about it.

But it's good to know you've got it running without major problems.

Richard P6 · Post by **Richard P6** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:47 am

Been googling and found that others have had the same problem, although reading about it, it isn't actually a problem at all

"1) msq errors:
Warning: MSQ Units Mismatch for maeRates4! kPa/s found in current configuration, ms found in MSQ, values were not converted to new units.
Warning: MSQ Units Mismatch for taeRates4! Volt/s found in current configuration, ms found in MSQ, values were not converted to new units.

You can ignore these...
These are because i fixed a problem in the ini file for MS1-Extra. The normal MSnS-extra in has units of ms assigned to maeRates4 and taeRates4, so if you saved the msq while using the incorrect ini you will get a warning message because the units in the ini doesn't match the units in the msq. If you save with the fixed ini, the same thing will happen. I guess no one really cared that those units were in correct as Megatune doesn't display them anywhere, but TunerStudio displays them in the Accel wizard, so units of ms look sort of silly."

Richard P6 · Post by **Richard P6** » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:50 pm

Car's off the road due to some annoying leaky bits, so I have been reading up on MS1 ignition maps and have come up with this map.

Does this look right?

Richard