Supra manual boxes.

[ihatesissycars]

Yo,

Is there diferent variants of the supra box? I know theres a 5 and very rare 6 speed but is there diferent strengths/versions like the lt77 has?
Any of them worth avoding or are they all strong?

I'd like to fit one eventually but i want to do it as cheaply as possible (as would most of course!) which would involve me making my own bellhousing. I was thinking of using the short auto bellhousing with an adaptor on the gearbox end, sound good? Anyone done it?

Also, clutch actuation. I have a cable pedal box converted to use a hydrauilic master cylinder but i could easily change it back to cable so i have the option of either type.

Rigging up a lever point and clutch arm in the housing seems like alot of work to me though so i was thinking of using a concentric (is that the right word?) slave cylinder with integral release bearing like in alot of modern day cars but i guess the available space and length of the cylinder assembly would dictate if thats an option.

The clutch is easy to sort as hopefully i can just get the centre changed on my my present paddle unit and use that if its possible.

Any thoughts/info on this?

[ian.stewart]

Supra boxes, I use the not turbo gearbox, out of a mid 80s straight 6 supra, Supposidly good for 450+hp, and the Turbo is 600hp, torque ratings im not sure about, but they are pretty high, The 6 speed is a Getrag item, from theV6, possibly the same box that BMW use, they bare a striking similarity to eash other, Stevie Turbo has a better memory than me and will be able to give more info on IDs of 5spd the boxes,
I modified a aftermarket bellhousing to fit the gearbox, it was one for fitting the earlier weaker box from the Hilux, the problem you will encounter doing the conversion will be mainly the gearbox has a similar front cover to the LT77, with no concentric spigot to mount off, I had to make a Jig so I could locate the bellhousing and spot thru so I could drill out the bolt and dowel holes, its NOT straight forward, If I told you how I did it you would laugh, then I would have to kill you
The clutch is also a slight problem with the Supra box having fairly short splines and because of this I needed a special friction plate with a built in offset to the spline hub, Helix do the centre plate with the offset for this conversion
I have never had any problems with it, apart from the shift being a little vague, may be down to the rubber mounted lever, but I cast a new top for the remote and built in a ratio reduction to give a quicker shift, and rose jointed it at the same time.
have a look here, this may be of help,
http://www.rodshop.com.au/gearboxes.htm and---------
http://www.helix-autosport.com/

Ian

[ihatesissycars]

Sounds like a right bastard. Nuts.

Do you think using the auto bell housing is a good starting point? The gearbox end of the bell housing is round so that does help to get the input shaft central in the bell housing therefore making my life easier (i hope!)

Also, you cast your own remote????? So you litterally got the sand out, boiled up some metal and started casting? Is there no limit to what you can do?

[ian.stewart]

Sounds like a right bastard. Nuts.

Do you think using the auto bell housing is a good starting point? The gearbox end of the bell housing is round so that does help to get the input shaft central in the bell housing therefore making my life easier (i hope!)

Also, you cast your own remote????? So you litterally got the sand out, boiled up some metal and started casting? Is there no limit to what you can do?

I did part of my apprenticeship in a foundry, I even know the secrets of casting and welding Magnesium, We cast anything from F1 whells, blocks, uprights, right up to Big Propellers, 110 ton single piece casting of Manganese Bronze, even found patterns for lots of Spitfire fighter parts when clearing out a workshop once, I think they were given to the Battle of Britian flight, intresting place to work, I think the place is now a B&Qs

[ihatesissycars]

Sounds like an excellent place to work! I like searching thru old places and seeing what you can find.

Anyways, do you reckon the auto bellhousing is do-able?

[stevieturbo]

Sounds like an excellent place to work! I like searching thru old places and seeing what you can find.

Anyways, do you reckon the auto bellhousing is do-able?

C'mon now Ian...cast the guys a bellhousing !!!!!

The W-55, W-58 etc are the non turbo 5 speed. Still a very strong box, and pretty sure they use this right up to and including the Mk4 Supras n/a

5 speed turbo of 88-94 vintage is the R-154, which is what I used. Very strong box.

The 6 speed...V161 or something like that is also MEGA strong, but it has an inetgral bellhousing. It is not like the BM boxes.
AFAIK, the bm boxes nearly always have a 1:1 6th gear, no overdrive, which is crap.
At least when I was searching them years ago, that was what most of teh info told me.

The W-series is slightly thinner than the R-154, but in general, they are a similar size externally.

Do a websearch, or search old threads in the old forum. Its been covered a few times.,

Here are some old links I have.
http://wwwrsphysse.anu.edu.au/~amh110/s ... _volvo.htm

mmm well, I did have a few links, they seem to be dead now. Im sure a websearch on terms like Supra, W-55, W-59, R-154 etc will reveal something.

[ian.stewart]

Infinatly doable, From memory the auto bellhousing is is a bit thin on the face so a plate would have to be welded on to add some depth, Possibly you will have to mount the bellhousing on a mill, it could be done on a good size lathe as well mounted on a face plate or a BIG 4 jaw chuck, clock the concentric bore, and then scurf off the face so you can weld on the plate onto the Auto bellhousing while still mounted on the mill, or at least tack it securely enough so you can continue the machining, you now now need to bore a hole in the plate to a close clearance of the release bearing support of the Toyota box, you can dismount the bellhousing now, and finish weld if needed, Following so far????
With the bellhousing from the Toyota gearbox, you will need to slice off the flange where the gearbox mounts, machine this flat so both sides of the dowel and bolt holes are accessable from both sides, so you now have a plate that looks a bit like a key hole, push this back onto the gearbox which should locate its self on the dowles, now with the Auto bellhousing on the floor, drop the gearbox thru the location hole in the bellhousing, Now you have two options, you can either weld the piece of original toyota bellhousing to the plate, or just tack it on, once done, lift off the gearbox and spot thru the holes in the flange which should now be in the correct position , with a felt tip mark around inside of the flange,
My preferance would be the tacking method and cut/chisel off the flange, you can cut the hole out for the gearbox with a Jig saw or a plasma cutter. then machine the surface with a light skim, the other option to the tacking of the flange, is use a 2 pack adhesive, you could even use body filler at a push,
Clutch release arm will be a suck it and see, or use a hydraulic bearing,

[ian.stewart]

Sounds like an excellent place to work! I like searching thru old places and seeing what you can find.

Anyways, do you reckon the auto bellhousing is do-able?

C'mon now Ian...cast the guys a bellhousing !!!!!

I can cast little bits by using Cement molds at work, I have even done lost wax on some brass bits,, I even used to have a nice line of fishing weights when I worked in a Lead foundry,
The problem with casting larger things in concrete is getting the thing dry, try explaining why you are in hospital after a blow back in a printing works when making a bellhousing

[ihatesissycars]

I follow you Ian! Welding will be a hld up though as i can't and have no way of welding ally. I'll have to find someone who can who's also open to back handers

Ref the clutch is it just the friction plate i'd need?

And. . . . . thats about it i think!

I'm searching around breakers trying to find one and the best cost so far is £125 + £25 delivery, sound good?

[ian.stewart]

with the clutch you may be able to get away with the clutch friction plate, My preferance would be change to a Helix explosion resistant pressure plate,
Gerbox price is not too bad, I paid £60 for mine but I had to get the box out myself, knowing what a pig it was to get out, that price seems reasonable

[Coops]

gav will they do a discount for two boxes

[ihatesissycars]

lol i'll ask the question!

Are you gonna do this route? Did the mt75 not pan out?

[stevieturbo]

Price Dellow or the Rodshop for the BH's. I really dont think they are terribly expensive.

[Alley Kat]

This may help a general guide though its R154 to Chevy smallblock:

Dellow:
"We manufacture 3 different types of bellhousings to match a Toyota Supra R154 5-speed onto a Chevy V8; Cable, Mechanical, Hydraulic.

All 3 bellhousings are AUD$550. The easiest way to identify a R154 from the 'W' Series is to count the splines on the rear shaft. The R154 will have 23 where-as the 'W' Series has 21-splines. Also the R154 has a drain plug that is parallel to the ground where-as the 'W' Series drain plug faces the ground."

CRS:
"Bellhousing cost $395, spigot bush $35, pivot ball and throwout fork $55,
suit hydraulic slave cylinder."

This is AUD not USD of course and ex shipping/duty/VAT/handling

cheers
Bill

[stevieturbo]

R series also has a reverse light switch on the side of the trans, which is quite identifiable. I think the W has it on top.

The R is also a lot wider, but unless you've seen a few, it wouldnt be blatantly obvious.

Bellhousing fixings are different for both boxes, as are propshaft output as mentioned above, as well as input shaft...

So all round, the R-154 is bigger.