IVA/SVA

Post by **Rossco** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:36 pm

Hey Ho.

Yet another cunning plan falls foul of the lefty pinkos that run our country.

My current project is now dead due to the necessity to modify the chassis past what the DVLA/VOSA consider acceptable. The result is that the vehicle would have to undergo the IVA test which for a 4x4 offroad style vehicle is all but impossible to pass.

Having spent many hours 'discussing' this with the DVLA/VOSA I would wonder how many of our vehicle are actually legal in the eyes of VOSA and how many of us are risking having our V5 withdrawn.

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:44 pm

Simplez. Tell them nothing until they find it for themselves. Your vehicle has always been like that.

Being honest with these corrupt b*****ds never gets you anywhere

Post by **katanaman** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:58 pm

Soon to be part of the MOT I believe where if an inspector sees changes from what the car says it should be on the computer its off for an IVA with you.

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:15 pm

katanaman wrote:Soon to be part of the MOT I believe where if an inspector sees changes from what the car says it should be on the computer its off for an IVA with you.

Given many MOT inspectors are monkeys....seems a silly idea.

And there is no paperwork that gives a detailed report on the vehicles chassis.

If government idiots have their way, every car will become illegal soon, unless you can bribe them otherwise.

So best thing is just to enjoy it while you can.

As has already been stated, many many cars would be absolutely impossible to make pass an IVA. So why volunteer for one ? When you know it's a stupid idea, you may as well just take the car to the scrappers and cash it in for scrap metal yourself.

I was chatting to a guy building a Cobra kit car a few weeks back, and he has to build it for IVA. Some of the things he was telling me and showing me go so far beyond ridiculous, that...well, I cant even find words to describe it.

In fact, I'd nearly think some factory cars could easily fail !!

Post by **katanaman** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:22 pm

yes I agree on all counts. There are probably some modified cars out there that are death traps but the most of them are carefully and lovingly put together. Most of the rules actually stop you making the car safer because of the way the points work. Big engine no problem but upgrade the brakes and chassis to cope isn't allowed.

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:37 pm

katanaman wrote:yes I agree on all counts. There are probably some modified cars out there that are death traps but the most of them are carefully and lovingly put together. Most of the rules actually stop you making the car safer because of the way the points work. Big engine no problem but upgrade the brakes and chassis to cope isn't allowed.

Pretty sure there are rules in the pipeline to tackle engines too...well, there probably are already.
Even the simple exhaust swap. Any deviation from the manufacturers standard is illegal. Its already there, but not widely enforced, mostly because it's stupid
But as many now know, they are playing the excessive noise card and impounding cars. Their war on motorists just goes on and on

But these rules if implemented and made retrospective, will immediately make tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of vehicles illegal.

The only words to describe it...are BS.

And. Current rules if taken to the letter of the law would also mean that virtually any restored vehicle, would also require an IVA, Q plate, whatever.
Rotten piece of shell or chassis. No problem, cut it and remove then replace.
Your chassis is no longer original, so you're in trouble.

Really...no matter what we do, if it's going to happen, it's going to happen. No amount of petitions or protests will ever change it, unless we turn to violent protests. But the british people are unlikely to ever resort to that.

So just make the best of things while we can, and enjoy our cars or whatever vehicle while we can. As everyone who has tried to be honest and up front with the DVLA etc knows, it never goes smoothly. So really, what is the point ?

Prime example being engine swaps. How many people have been faced with "There was never an engine made of 1234 cc capacity, please provide proof bla bla bla I'm just writing this to be really awkward because i am stupid"

Post by **Rossco** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:16 pm

katanaman wrote:Soon to be part of the MOT I believe where if an inspector sees changes from what the car says it should be on the computer its off for an IVA with you.

Exactly, and the moment you end up going down that route you can kiss good-bye to your reg and say hello to a Q plate.

They had no issue with a 500bhp 7.6 litre engine but fell over themselves with glee when I mentioned moving the rear crossmember forward by 6 inches. On a Range Rover the rear crossmember does poke all except hold the rear bumper off the ground.

If you have a monococque then any cutting no matter how small means it's off for an IVA test....reshaping the tunnel - IVA test........easing the bulkhead - IVA test.

As for anyone running none standard axles.....IVA test

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:33 pm

Rossco wrote:
If you have a monococque then any cutting no matter how small means it's off for an IVA test....reshaping the tunnel - IVA test........easing the bulkhead - IVA test.

As for anyone running none standard axles.....IVA test

So in effect...anyone trying to restore any vehicle whatsoever...IVA

Total and utter nonsense. In fact, it's so stupid, only government could come up with it !!

They have only one aim with the rules. To try and take more cars off the road. Plain and simple.

Ian Anderson · Post by **Ian Anderson** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:49 pm

I hear what you guys are saying but can perhaps shed some light.

In Europe it is almost impossible to get a modified car, home built car, kit car etc registered for the road. In the UK they developed the SVA to try and make a way for the "modifers" to work within a set of laws to keep industry etc going.

But the non elected bozos in Brussels want us to comply with their dictatorship rules and hence SVA became IVA and will continue to get more and more difficult to get Kit cars through - more difficult to get modified cars through etc.

So my suggestion is that everyone of us write to your MP (he legally has to respond and advise what heproposes to do) and let him / her / it know your feelings on the situation - including the fact the they are "Judge, jury and executioner" and you have no body for appeals. This cannot be a legal situation even in pansy UK

Let him know that you accet there should be some form of check on modifications done to ensure the cars are safe and not death traps. Hell I bet you'd all be happy to submit your car to have your new brakes tested if it was a fairr test and you would then be able to have your car "signed off" as approved for a small fee. Why do they need to inspect the whole vehicle if you have only modified one part?

Also tell them that this group of people are responsible adults who pay taxes and want to assist in ensuring as much recycling is done hence the need to replace parts on an older vehicle (keeps in with their "Green credentials")

That said I went through SVA and at the first test the examiner
1) Failed to notice the "bling" fuel filter was dripping fuel
2) Failed to notice that after the "Brake Stomp test" the brand new brake light pressure switch had let go and each application of the brakes caused flluid spill
3) He decided though that my professional loom that was correctly fitted was not good enough and that every bit had to be removed - inserted into convoluted tube and reattached - He made the rules and the car would continue to fail untilI changed it to meet "HIS" requirements
3) HE failed the tyres even though they were specifically allowed - if he had turned over the page in the manual - he read the same page twice and refused to read the next page - cost 4 new tyres
4) Failed it on some "radiusses" - including rear pannel that lets hot air out of engine bay - he would rather not have any pannels!
5) He was about 5'2" and I'm 6'3" and he failed the morrors - he could not see correctly - but he also could not reach the pedals! I refitted the mirrors where he stated and the next examiner (same height as me) said they were wrong and should be put back to the original location!

If I never see the Mitcham depot again it will be too soon!

I feel your pain!

Ian

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:53 pm

My point exactly. There is no sense having monkeys who dont have a clue, testing vehicles.

And as for DIY modifications. In many cases, places that allege to be specialist, experts, whatever. Many of them may have no formal qualifications in their current field. Other than experience.

So what exactly would qualify people to inspect other's vehicles, when there really isnt any universal standard of ability ?

And even if there was, I'd bet that half the people that pass any test laid down by government, would still be completely incompetent.

But all this crap makes for one interesting thought. WRC cars etc are supposed to be fully road legal.

I wonder would they pass an IVA ? I suspect not, and there can be no doubt whatsoever that they are 100% professionally built and safe.

One ridiculous aspect the Cobra guy told me was wiring related. No wiring could go for more than 11" or so without being supported. And cable ties werent suitable !!
The OEM use cable ties FFS !!! And certainly dont affix everything at such intervals.
He had to take photos of the entire installed loom. If he couldnt provide proof at time of IVA, he'd have to strip the entire car for them to inspect.

What a load of balls !!

Ian Anderson · Post by **Ian Anderson** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:36 pm

I'm friends of a bloke that prepares rally cars for the current Scottish Rally Champions team

He imports Scooby doos from Japan
Then modifies them to pass SVA /IVA

Then he strips them back out and rebuilds the car for rally specifications.

6 point belts for instance will not pass SVA as you have to turn the latch to undo instead of pushing a button - real bollocks - they are FIA approved but SVA fail them!

I believe you also cannot have a full cage built into a car for SVA as it is too hard an object for a head to contact. BUT wrap it in plumbers pipe antifreeze stuff and it passes.

Oh yes the Cobra guy needs to read the manual the whole loom needs to be fixed and a distance not exceeding 300 mm so the 11 inches works on that. But cable ties are acceptable - so long as they are cut back with no sharp edges and fixed to permanent chassis points. (You cannot clip it to brake lines for example) So you drill the chassis bars which weakens them and rivet in place a bracket that allows a permanent fixing of the loom. - as you say it sounds like bollocks but that is a rule in the manual - tell him to read the manual! (He can get the clips to rivit on from Car Builder Solutions http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/product/CABL ... ASES_CTBAS
My "Mini hitler" dod not trust the double sided tape hence that are now also rivited - on the fiberglass parts I epoxied them in place!

But if he has had his IVA he will have a fail list
Tell him to put those right - they are the only bits they are allowed to retest. Make sure they are correct and you the car must pass

Yes a real Pain in the ARSE but you need to play them at their game!

Ian

mgrv8 · Post by **mgrv8** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:04 pm

You blokes really know how to worry me.

... my mgb has 5lt rv8 engine/cossy t5 box/ mgrv8 axles/ modified tunnel /modified inner wings {rv8mainifolds} /mgrv8 4 wings fitted... is it law now for an MOT man to report me?? or is this in the future??..... im off to buy an allegro!!!

Steve

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:45 pm

mgrv8 wrote:You blokes really know how to worry me. ... my mgb has 5lt rv8 engine/cossy t5 box/ mgrv8 axles/ modified tunnel /modified inner wings {rv8mainifolds} /mgrv8 4 wings fitted... is it law now for an MOT man to report me?? or is this in the future??..... im off to buy an allegro!!!
Steve

That is basically their intentions. Yes.

Post by **katanaman** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:10 pm

It isn't law just yet but it is in the pipeline.

Magnetteman · Post by **Magnetteman** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:03 pm

stevieturbo wrote:
katanaman wrote:yes I agree on all counts. There are probably some modified cars out there that are death traps but the most of them are carefully and lovingly put together. Most of the rules actually stop you making the car safer because of the way the points work. Big engine no problem but upgrade the brakes and chassis to cope isn't allowed.
Pretty sure there are rules in the pipeline to tackle engines too...well, there probably are already.
Even the simple exhaust swap. Any deviation from the manufacturers standard is illegal. Its already there, but not widely enforced, mostly because it's stupid
But as many now know, they are playing the excessive noise card and impounding cars. Their war on motorists just goes on and on

But these rules if implemented and made retrospective, will immediately make tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of vehicles illegal.

The only words to describe it...are BS.

And. Current rules if taken to the letter of the law would also mean that virtually any restored vehicle, would also require an IVA, Q plate, whatever.
Rotten piece of shell or chassis. No problem, cut it and remove then replace.
Your chassis is no longer original, so you're in trouble.

Really...no matter what we do, if it's going to happen, it's going to happen. No amount of petitions or protests will ever change it, unless we turn to violent protests. But the british people are unlikely to ever resort to that.

So just make the best of things while we can, and enjoy our cars or whatever vehicle while we can. As everyone who has tried to be honest and up front with the DVLA etc knows, it never goes smoothly. So really, what is the point ?

Prime example being engine swaps. How many people have been faced with "There was never an engine made of 1234 cc capacity, please provide proof bla bla bla I'm just writing this to be really awkward because i am stupid"

The strange thing is that this isn't anything new, the rules and regs have been in place since 1997.

As the test stands at the moment most of the examples you've posted are not entirely correct but have been reported as being the law by a lot of the motoring press.

Cutting a chassis to carry out a repair is allowed, shortening/widening/lengthening a chassis isn't. The same applies to a monocoque shell.
Engines changes are fine but you do have to provide proof of purchase or verifiable history if requested....this is to try and halt the sale of stolen engine allegedly.
You can do what you want to the exhaust sytems as long as they meet the decibel and emission requirements.
A restored vehicle will not need an IVA/SVA test because the chassis, front & rear suspension, engine, gearbox etc are all as standard.

VOSA operate a points sytem. Carry enough points and you don't need a test. Modify the chassis or monocoque away from factory design and you will.

There is a very good organisation that have been fighting the good fight on behalf of modified car owners and their website is well worth an evenings reading.
http://www.the-ace.org.uk/

I've picked all this up whilst carrying out the rebuild on my MG which, luckily, doesn't need an IVA test because the chassis was built before the advent of Q plates or IVA testing.