302 into a Mk3 Cortina

[Cortinaphile]

Hi all,

I've been a member of this forum for a while but haven't made any posts yet so please allow me to introduce myself. I'm Phil and I have a 1971 Ford Cortina XL (the single headlamp Mk3 with NO vinyl roof!).

My plan is to completely strip the car and rebuild it with uprated brakes, suspension, steering, chassis and just about everything else! The reason for this is that I will also be building a Ford 302 with upgraded (mainly Edelbrock) parts which should be pushing out 350+bhp and lots of torque

Although I have read the relevant books and just about every forum post on here (and BSC: THE Cortina forum), I have next to zero hands-on experience... so it's gonna be fun!

I'm aiming for torque at low revs rather than high revving bhp so I'm going for Edelbrock Performer and NOT Performer RPM parts and want to keep the weight down as much as possible so ally heads etc . Also I figure that performance parts should be more reliable than standard parts as I won't be thrashing the car (too much )... am I right?

I've written out a shopping list that I can put on here if anyone would care to look over it and make sure that all the bits will work together well?

Sorry about the essay but I'm very excited! Should be picking up the block and some other goodies on Saturday.

Cheers!

[ian.stewart]

Me again, If you want a Torque monster, either get a stroker kit in a 302, or get a 351W and fit a stroker kit in this, plus a sniff if gas for a bit of drag racing a 408 SBF running 11s should not be a problem

[Cortinaphile]

Me again, If you want a Torque monster, either get a stroker kit in a 302, or get a 351W and fit a stroker kit in this, plus a sniff if gas for a bit of drag racing a 408 SBF running 11s should not be a problem

Hi!

I didn't ignore the kind advice you gave but I've already committed myself to buying a 302 block (already cleaned, only +30 bore and from a BSC member). Also I read somewhere (on here I think) that stroker kits severely shorten the lifespan of the engine. Is this true?

Tbh I think that a 302 with upgraded parts will be more than fast enough for me. I'm not aiming to break any records at the Pod... just to humiliate the odd Beemer at the traffic light grand prix in a 40 year old car!

Cheers,

Phil

[ian.stewart]

Do stroker kits shorten the lifespan of an engine??? Thats a big question, I think anybody who contemplates fitting a stroker has the intention of leaning on it hard, TBH if you have the power, in most cases, you use the power, so the engine works harder, I supose things like excess rod angularity and length of skirt will both have some detrimental effect on the engine.
on the plus side a stroker will produce max torque lower down the rev range than a short stroke stocker, so you dont need to rev it so hard, When I race my car I have my shift light set at max torque and shift just around where the torque starts to stop increasing, remember Torque accellerates the car and power gives you speed.
The stroker is unlightly to cause much in the reliability stakes, and may be more down to people not understanding the principles of building a stroked engine and using mismatched parts

[Cortinaphile]

Do stroker kits shorten the lifespan of an engine??? Thats a big question, I think anybody who contemplates fitting a stroker has the intention of leaning on it hard, TBH if you have the power, in most cases, you use the power, so the engine works harder, I supose things like excess rod angularity and length of skirt will both have some detrimental effect on the engine.
on the plus side a stroker will produce max torque lower down the rev range than a short stroke stocker, so you dont need to rev it so hard, When I race my car I have my shift light set at max torque and shift just around where the torque starts to stop increasing, remember Torque accellerates the car and power gives you speed.
The stroker is unlightly to cause much in the reliability stakes, and may be more down to people not understanding the principles of building a stroked engine and using mismatched parts

Well I'm sold! But would this still fit in the Cortina ok? I'm trying avoid a big bonnet bulge to keep a stock look.

Probably a stupid question this but would this change the carb, heads, manifolds etc that I want?

Thanks for the advice!

[kiwicar]

Hi Phill
I am building a chevy 383 at the minute, the reason is that it is the cheepest horsepower going, the stroaker cranks out of the US are virtually the same price as standard (in my case exactly the same price) and a good cast crank is a the same price as my new cam!
For what you sound as if you want it should be ideal, a 350-400bhp SBF on a stroaker with good ally heads will be a treat to drive, add 50bhp nitrous and it will be a riot!
The stroaker tends to make the cam feel milder as it tends to increase the velocity in the ports over standard so improving things for the carb.
for this reason I would consider slightly bigger ports in the head over what you had planned for the 302 and maybe a little more cam (no more than 10 degrees inlet and exhaust).
Best of luck
Mike

[Cortinaphile]

Hi Phill
I am building a chevy 383 at the minute, the reason is that it is the cheepest horsepower going, the stroaker cranks out of the US are virtually the same price as standard (in my case exactly the same price) and a good cast crank is a the same price as my new cam!
For what you sound as if you want it should be ideal, a 350-400bhp SBF on a stroaker with good ally heads will be a treat to drive, add 50bhp nitrous and it will be a riot!
The stroaker tends to make the cam feel milder as it tends to increase the velocity in the ports over standard so improving things for the carb.
for this reason I would consider slightly bigger ports in the head over what you had planned for the 302 and maybe a little more cam (no more than 10 degrees inlet and exhaust).
Best of luck
Mike

The Edelbrock Performer heads (which I presume are ally) have a choice of inlet valve sizes: 1.90" or 2.02"... so I guess I'd want the 2.02". Will this be big enough?

I still have a lot to learn when it comes to cams. Would the Edelbrock Performer Plus (Intake: 5° ATDC 29° ABDC Exhaust: 44° BBDC 10° BTDC) be any good with a stroker kit?

The costs are mounting up as I'm getting a bit carried away here! Where can I get away with buying standard Ford parts as opposed to special performance parts? I def need ally heads and intake manifold and a good carb... and with the crank, pistons and rods for a stroker kit, that doesn't leave much else!

Cheers!

[kiwicar]

Hello Phill
Get the right ford block and it comes with roller lifters in it as standard, and they can be checked over and re-used on a new cam, if not they are good standard off the shelf ford part with matching prices so you are off to a good start.
The cam seems to be a 214 degree duration pattern which is pretty mild, with a stroaker I would go for a 224 pattern for mild road use, with good ally heads this will be an easy drive (I'm using a custon ground 253deg inlet 262deg exhaust on 112deg lobe seperation mechanical roller cam) which I hope will be just road drivable in a very light car with BIG port heads (235cc per port)
The ford heads are a much better layout than the Chevy and tend to flow much more for a given port volume, 185 to 200 cc inlets should be good and I would go with the bigger valves.
You could take a look at the race head services range,this is what I bought, and brodix and a quite afew others do heads for the ford. Knight engine services in the UK do replicas of gurney westlake race heads if you feel nostalgic!!
Edlebrook are very nice heads but you are paying a premium for the name. I don't know where you plan to buy your bits but I got nearly everything mail order from the US or off US ebay, not difficult and I saved alot of money and ordered exactly what I wanted.
Best regards
Mike

[stu8]

Well I'm sold! But would this still fit in the Cortina ok? I'm trying avoid a big bonnet bulge to keep a stock look.

You can't tell any difference on the outside between a 302 and a 302 stroker, it's only the internals that are different, (crank and rods) same block, same head size etc.

Ref reliability, I did a lot of research and found most "knowledgeable " people say don't go over 331 with a 302 block.

As a result I'm having a 331 built at the moment.

.

[ian.stewart]

Well I'm sold! But would this still fit in the Cortina ok? I'm trying avoid a big bonnet bulge to keep a stock look.

You can't tell any difference on the outside between a 302 and a 302 stroker, it's only the internals that are different, (crank and rods) same block, same head size etc.

Ref reliability, I did a lot of research and found most "knowledgeable " people say don't go over 331 with a 302 block.

As a result I'm having a 331 built at the moment.

.

What are the reasons given for not going beyond the 331??

If I ever get around to building a SBF, it will probably be a stroked 302, and out to 348, with a GOOD set of CNC heads, and using my Throttle bodies,
If you intend making a lot of power in the future, look for a 302, rather than the rollercammed 5.0, the earlier block is stronger, I have seen 3 5,0 blocks split thru the lifter valley

[kiwicar]

Hi Ian/Phill
fully see where you are going, for your use the 302 is by far the better block as I would think you will be going forged everything a big lumpy cam (er like I am) if I were going ford small block I would be doing the same.
I haven't read anything that says not to go to 348, I think douling the main caps would be a very good idea or even add a main cap brace but not read anything that says stick to 331 .
Just thinking for a milder stroker on a budget the 5.0 option with the roller cam on a cast stroaker crank, hyper pistons etc would still get Phill in the 350-400bhp bracket and with the ford roler lifters and a mildish cam would not split the block, what it would do is give him a roller cam without the chunky cost aftermarket roller lifters (having just bought a set of said lifters I can say they ain't cheep! )
If Phill has the extra £120 for the aftermarket lifters then definatly 302 but the standard ford 5.0 items are a better price and perfectly adaquate for a 224 deg cam.
Mike

[Cortinaphile]

I'm waiting to hear back from someone but, as far as I know, I'm getting a 302 (not 5.0) block, which has been stripped and cleaned. I don't know what year or block number (if there is one) it is yet.

It also comes with a reground crank, which I guess will become redundant (worth anything on ebay!?!). It also comes with some pistons (KB but not sure which ones), Clevite bearings, Felpro gaskets, ARP bolts, ally roller rockers (1.6 versions), Ford Racing timing cover & water pump but that's it. Does the type of block dictate which kind of cam/lifters I can use? Or is purely down to my budget?

I've found a 331 stroker kit (all pre balanced) that I like the look of in America. I don't think I need to go any higher than this, especially if there's a potential risk of it harming the engine. Just gotta find out what the Customs & Excise are going to charge me to bring it over... see if it's still (relatively) cheap!

Cheers guys!

[kiwicar]

customs charge you Vat at the usual rate on everything including post and packing and between 3 and 5% duty (or somtimes no duty at all!) on six deliveries the only consistant bit is the VAT.
Roller lifters are standard parts on 5.0 blocks but are ford standard parts, designed for moderate lift cams, aftermarket jobbies fit 302 of 5.0 blocks can take lots more lift and are more expansive, the two types use different methods to locate the lifters. Well worth the money if you want a high performance engine with a good spread of power and the cams and lifters last longer than flat tappet, and you dont have to buy new lifters every time you change cam.
When buying a stroaker Kit make sure you buy it as a kit as you have to get the right combination of stroke, rod length and piston pin height.
Best of luch
Mike

[Cortinaphile]

customs charge you Vat at the usual rate on everything including post and packing and between 3 and 5% duty (or somtimes no duty at all!) on six deliveries the only consistant bit is the VAT.
Roller lifters are standard parts on 5.0 blocks but are ford standard parts, designed for moderate lift cams, aftermarket jobbies fit 302 of 5.0 blocks can take lots more lift and are more expansive, the two types use different methods to locate the lifters. Well worth the money if you want a high performance engine with a good spread of power and the cams and lifters last longer than flat tappet, and you dont have to buy new lifters every time you change cam.
When buying a stroaker Kit make sure you buy it as a kit as you have to get the right combination of stroke, rod length and piston pin height.
Best of luch
Mike

I had a look at the Customs website and couldn't get a clear answer so thanks for that! I'll assume 5% to be safe. (I do like the way the Post Office charge you for opening and then repackaging the parcel... hope they're on strike that day and it slips through!).

This is the stroker kit I had in mind:
http://www.fordstrokers.com/stroker-specials-c79.html

Cheers!

[Ian Anderson]

Or try some specialists

like

http://www.worldcastings.com/prods_pages/102060.htm


Ian