Audi B5 420-R DTM: The Build.

Post any info regarding parts for conversion and swaps.
and any posts regarding swaps help.

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Nollywood
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Audi B5 420-R DTM: The Build.

Post by Nollywood » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:48 pm

Hey B5ers!

I have chosen to separate the build of one of my B5 Quattros from a second project. This is going to be more of a stripped-out car, for fast-road and track use. Of course, as with all my projects, the heart of this build will be no other than a 4.2 V8 and 01E 6-speed manual gearbox.

There has also been a lot of interest and queries into installing an ABZ 32V into the B5 chassis. Although I am not using an ABZ, the motor I'm using is fundermentally the same. It is the AHC from the European Audi S8, only differing from the ABZ in its pistons, cylinder head and intake valves, which are solid. These, coupled with bigger injectors, more aggressive camshafts and different ECU software allow the AHC motor rev to a heady 7000rpm, making 340hp, so 40hp over the stock ABZ.

I will document the build as much as time allows. Hopefully it will be of help to anyone wishing to go the ABZ route. I will however point out that my recipient B5 is very different to what most owners contemplating this swap will probably have. It's a facelift 2.5 TDI V6 Quattro 6MT. The ABZ/AHC engines are easier to install and integrate with pre-facelift cars, so 1995-1999, with DBC. My car is a 2000 DBW model, so there WILL be differences, but I'll try remembering to point them out as I go along.

I have not integrated a DBC V8 with a facelift (DBW) B5 until now, so it'll be a learning curve for me too. I have however worked extensively with both 32 and 40V Audi V8's, many years ago, I successfully integrated a 40V from an European S6 with a 1985 90 Quattro, which of course was a DBC car, and had NOTHING in common with the S6 motor. With a lot of adaptation of wiring, building a hybrid harness, it worked just fine.
Last edited by Nollywood on Sun May 01, 2016 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.


2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.

Nollywood
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Post by Nollywood » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:49 pm

Introducing the recipient car, a 2000 B5 2.5 TDI V6 Quattro, with 6MT:

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2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.

Nollywood
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Post by Nollywood » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:51 pm

The engine being swapped into this car, as it was delivered:

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And after giving it a quick steam clean with a pressure washer. I used a fair bit of engine degreasant to attack the built-up grime, then blasted it all off:

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I replaced the timing belt, tensioner and associated idlers, as well as the water pump and thermostat:

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2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.

Nollywood
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Post by Nollywood » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:53 pm

The timing belt covers got a coat of paint to freshen things up somewhat:

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The intake manifold and rocker covers were also painted:

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When it comes to a manual conversion, with the 32V engine there are less options with regards to a flywheel solution. This is because the crankshaft has a 10-bolt fitment, unlike the 40V engines, which share the same 8-bolt fitment as the V6. There are 3 options here:

Get a flywheel custom made, which I did for my earlier swaps.
Get an OEM European S8 6MT flywheel.
Get an automatic driveplate insert from 034 Motorsport.

I opted to buy a genuine European S8 flywheel.

A word of caution here: If you choose to buy the flexiplate insert from 034, bear in mind if you intend to run the OEM Bosch Motronic ECU, you WILL run into issues, which will prevent the engine from running. The crank sensor location of the manual gearbox and automatic transmission are NOT in the same place. Manual sensor is just past the 1 o'clock position on the bell housing, with the automatic it's approximately at the 3 o'clock position. Unless you plan to run a stand alone ECU, which allows you to set the trigger points where ever you want, I would go with an OEM flywheel, or a custom made one.

My Euro S8 flywheel:

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Clutch solutions are easier. The important part is the pressure plate, as this is what has to physically bolt to the flywheel. You can use any of the Audi 240mm friction discs, as long as the splines match your gearbox. It is also worth mentioning the OEM S8 flywheel is not DM, it is a solid one-piece item, so remember to run a friction disc with a sprung hub. Solid hub friction discs work too, but engagement will be pretty harsh.

My clutch consists of an S8 pressure plate, B7 S4 friction disc and regular 01A/01E throw-out bearing. The flywheel and clutch assembly all torqued down gives a stack height of 86,0mm. If you opt for any clutch and flywheel combination that gives a stack height exceeding 90mm, you will need to run a B5 S4 spacer, which is around 11,5mm thick.

My set-up:

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2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.

Nollywood
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Post by Nollywood » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:54 pm

One aspect of the 32V motor I find hard to accept is the massive, combined oil filter and cooler. Besides being pretty close to the chassis frame rail, and insanely heavy, it is also prone to leaking internally. This is whereby the internals rupture, resulting in coolant mixing with the engine oil.

It can also leak externally, where the small plastic coolant pipe becomes brittle with age, and hundreds of heating and cooling cycles. Replacing this pipe with an uprated aluminium item is the quick solution. I say quick, a bit ironic, as it's a nasty job to undertake with the engine sitting in the engine bay. I chose to delete the whole mess, going with a remote oil cooler and oil filter housing. This is designed to accept a B5 S4 / B6 3.0 metal spin-on oil filter.

Oil coolers are either air or water cooled. A water cooled item is more of a heat exchanger really, allowing the coolant temperature to heat the oil faster, which is beneficial. Coolant generally heats up faster. However, oil temps at high rpm and road speed can climb uncomfortably high.

An air-cooled set-up works best at high road speeds, I have therefore opted to install both an air and water cooled oil cooler. The water cooled unit is thermostatically controlled, so no risk of the oil being over-cooled.

To relocate the factory oil cooler meant I had to have a take-off plate from the original holes left after removing the oil cooler. Removing the cooler involves cutting down the aluminium housing, as completely removing it means you'll have no means of mounting the alternator, at least not in it's original location.

034 Motorsport can supply you with the aluminium adapter to allow you relocate the oil cooler / filter housing, if you choose to go down this route. I was unable to get hold of an 034 rep at the time, my emails were not responded to on time, so I got an adapter plate made locally.

My oil cooler set-up:

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Torque aluminium oil filter housing:

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With B6 3.0 oil filter trial-fitted:

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With B5 S4 water cooler / heat exchanger fitted:

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Thermostatically-controlled heat exchanger sandwich plate / adapter:

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Dual oil cooler set-up with air-cooled 13 row matrix:

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The coolant hole in the block (where the plastic coolant pipe was) will have to be plugged. I had an aluminium core plug machined to an interference taper, and drove it in.

This is the hole in question, I did not remember to take a picture of it plugged, but you get the idea:

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2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.

Nollywood
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Post by Nollywood » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:55 pm

Another item which I strongly advise you include in your clutch shopping list, is a metal clutch slave cylinder. The plastic ones have been known to rupture with a stock 1.8T clutch. With a stiffer sprung pressure plate, coupled with a slightly higher than normal stack height, the points of leverage and loading will increase considerably. A plastic slave cylinder will literally explode under extreme stress.

My slave cylinder is a steel item.
2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.

Nollywood
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Post by Nollywood » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:56 pm

This B5 is reasonably well specified, though a moot point. It will be completely stripped of:

Air con.
Rear seats, with fronts replaced with lightweight Corbeau items.
Carpet and sound deadening.
Head lining.
Rear parcel shelf.
Electric windows, side windows to be replaced with Lexan and sliding panels.
All audio and loudspeakers.
Rear centre console.
Spare wheel well.
HVAC unit.
Air bags.
Interior door trims replaced with aluminium sheet panels.

I am still debating removing the dash, to replace with a more race-oriented control panel made out of aluminium, which will house controls and cluster instrumentation. The car will be caged.
2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.

Nollywood
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Post by Nollywood » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:57 pm

Just to give an idea how stripped out this car will be, here are a few pictures of my old Europa blue 2.6 V6 12V Quattro, which was junked to make way for my current Santorin blue B5:

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2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.

Nollywood
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Post by Nollywood » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:58 pm

I went with a B5 aluminium radiator:

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2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.

Nollywood
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Post by Nollywood » Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:01 pm

I did look at aluminium flywheels from a number of suppliers, but decided to let them go.

Aluminium flywheels are lighter, that's for sure. They allow the engine to rev more freely, and with less weight, spool up time is faster, more beneficial though to BT motors, where quick spool up times are required.

I have driven quite a few of these cars, and my issues were:

Chatter, and a snatchy drive. As quickly as it spools up, the revs drop pretty fast too, making for a very jerky transition between overrun and acceleration.

The steel friction surface riveted to the aluminium flywheel is also a problem area. Heat gets trapped between the steel and aluminium, and slippage will occur. In extreme cases, the steel can warp, and pull the rivets out of the aluminium.

Cast-iron flywheels I would term dangerous. Cast-iron can explode, and when it does, you don't want to be anywhere near it. I have witnessed this at Santa Pod Raceway, and the flying shrapnel punched holes in the transmission tunnel. It also smashed the bell housing, and blew 2 of the mounting lugs clean off the engine block. The driver walked away shaken, but unhurt. Pretty scary stuff.

Steel is the best option, and they too can be built lighter than OEM, but with little or no chatter compared to an aluminium one.
2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.

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Post by Nollywood » Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:03 pm

With all the love being shown to project B5 420-R, B5 420-R DTM was not getting the attention she deserved.

As the engine for this car was already running in an older shell, it would probably make more sense to get this one up and running, before my Pelican Blue car. This car also has the advantage of already having a 6-speed 01E manual transmission in place. As it is a diesel, it only has 1 down pipe from the single, centrally-mounted turbo.

I'll be sourcing a pair of stainless down pipes to bolt to the 4.2 V8 32V S8 motor. This is very different to the 4.2 V8 40V A8 engine which is destined for 420-R. 420-R DTM is going to be more race than street, so will be lightweight, stripped and extremely raw.

I did detail the engine somewhat 2 years ago, but the paint was done by me, rattle can-style. Although it looked good, it's no match for my 40V motor. It is also not colour matched to what this car will finally be. Definitely not the current Santorin Blue.

I am sending the valve and timing belt covers off to the same shop I used to pain and bake the Pelican Blue covers on my 420-R motor. This one, my 420-R DTM engine will get the timing belt covers painted in a black metallic, while the valve covers will be smoothed, and painted in the same colour the car will be. I am looking at doing an ICM delete, and running the same red coils as on my 420-R engine. But as with all conversions, it is best to get the engine running in the recipient chassis, BEFORE making any changes that MAY cause a non-start situation. That way if the engine won't run, you'll know it's down to something that's been missed, rather than a change that was made to the harness.

Here is how the engine currently looks:

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2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.

Nollywood
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Post by Nollywood » Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:06 pm

Not much is happening here. Suffice to say though, my S8 32V motor is being built to my spec. I'm trying to decide which stand alone to run it with.

And, I'm sticking with the B5 here as well. Lighter, more nimble and arguably better-looking than the B6.
2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.

Nollywood
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Post by Nollywood » Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:07 pm

With B5 420-R almost complete - it just needs the new manual S8 ECU matched to my cluster, my B5 2.5 V6 TDI Quattro will be swapping places soon. I will be installing a stock D2 S8 motor, just to make sure all bugs are ironed out. Then it will be replaced with a built engine.

The 2.5 V6 TDI engine is currently advertised for sale, and of course once it is sold, out it comes. The interior is going to be gutted too, unlike the Pelican Blue car, which is being built as a high-spec B5, the Santorin Blue car is going to share its road going duties with the track. So losing as much weight as possible is essential.

It will also need to be braced properly with a welded-in cage.

Getting ready:

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2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.

unstable load
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Post by unstable load » Sun May 01, 2016 4:46 am

All I can say is WOW!! You certainly know your way around Audis.
I will be following this one as closely as your other car.
Cheers,
John

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Post by Nollywood » Sat May 07, 2016 7:47 pm

]Update: 07th May, 2016.

Well, the 2.5 V6 TDI motor has sold, so this marks the beginning of project B5 420-R DTM.

I will get her into the garage next week at some point, and commence pulling the motor. I will also start stripping the interior.
2000 Audi B5 420-R, Pelican Blue:Work In Progress.
2000 Audi B5 420-R DTM, Santorin Blue: Work In Progress.

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