T3 garret

bones · Post by **bones** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:06 pm

ive got one of the older 302 blocks, from what ive found out its one of the stronger ones. high revs i dont think i will need 6000 max really. So what would be the most cost affective way of doing the engine , what stock stuff could be used, the heads are 65cc chamber

rich

ivanhoew · Post by **ivanhoew** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:18 pm

id use a stock crank ,
if you allready have the ally heads and theyre a street size port head use those ,
otherwize use the stock ones ,

um stock rods ,

forged pistons prob trw cheap ones ,

um soft cam in the 210 degrees at 50 thou lift range ,112 lsa.decent v springs to go with cam from same manufacturer as cam ,

thats about it ,but realize ,this is not an engine i have personal info on ,just general rules i follow .
you could ask on the tubo mustang forum ?

regards
robert

bones · Post by **bones** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:57 pm

so using stock stuff will be ok ,apart from the pistons they would be forged, i havent stripped the engine down so dont know what in it yet,and is using a carb with them ok.

rich

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:40 am

Would generally agree with the above for the 302, however a couple of comments
1/ If the crank needs a regrind, cost up a new forged crank direct from the states, it can be cheeper than getting an old one ground here.
2/ Forged pistons are a good idea if you can afford reasonable ones, and again direct from the states they are relativly cheep (I would avoid the cheepest ones as the savings are likly to be made in the machining and QA) however if you are not going mad on overall output then consider hyperutetic pistons, they have a very low coeficient of expansion which can be usefull as you can run tighter piston clearances which will avoid blow by while everything is warming up.
3/ Virtually all SBFs are 2 bolt mains, it would be a good idea either to convert it to 4 bolt mains or buy a main bearing brace and pin the caps, pretty standard practice on anything producing 400BHP or more.
4/ SBF heads are generally much better than most so changing them isn't really necessary to get good power, however Aftermarket SBF heads are so good for very reasonable money that a set of ally heads makes very good sence.
5/ Consider your cam choice (see comments elsewhere postings on zinc adatives in oil) a roller conversion might be the way to go, especially if you think you may have to change cam more than once, on a roller cam you don't have to change roller lifters when you change cam.
I don't know what power you are after but terbo 302 is a well developed combination and you can see silly numbers on what looks a pretty standard engine, the trick seems to be carfull ballance of bits and atending th detail when building.
Mike

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:55 am

sorry just read the earlier post so some of the above is a bit dumb, however
stroker crank, as said above you save on the regrind of the standard crank so it is a low cost addition so I would.
Dart heads are nice and very good flow, I would use a bit more duration on the cam with them, 225 inlet 228 exhaust on 112 to 114 LSA and really consider a roller cam
H beams yes
With the rest of the Spec you have then I would use forged pistons and a brace on the main caps.
I would consider the standard ford injection inlet or an aftermarket equivilant, it will be alot quicker and easier to get an injection set up to work with a turbo, you will save money in the long run because you wont have to spent ages setting it up on a rolling road.
Like the spec thought, 8 to 12psi boost could see you the far side of 600 bhp with the right cam.
Mike

ivanhoew · Post by **ivanhoew** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:52 am

http://www.dartheads.com/products/cylin ... heads.html

62cc for the pro ones rich ? have yours been opened out a bit ?

a good path to follow on cam timing ,since theres a bit of disagreement on here , is to contact comp cams or crower or crane etc ,and say to them hey ,heres my heads , i want 6k rpm max power ,and see what they recomend ,for your target bhp .a roller cam really wont be needed to get to plus 550 bhp ,same for h rods and 4 botl block etc , all those things are for rpm stablilty and strength ,,the great thing about turbocharging is ,you dont need to rev any higher than the stock engine did to make power ,and i guess a stock 5 litre ford can safely rev to 6k?

what you DO need , is a good intercooler,as big as you can fit in ,a fuel pump and system that can flow the quantity you need ,
a solid spark ,msd 6 is fine ,boost retard box with it ,,good ht leads ,
nice big freee flowing exhaust AFTER the turbos,
its all about greater cylinder pressure and coping with that ,rather than greater rpm ,and trying to get the engine to stay together for that .

god i do waffle on
regards
robert

ivanhoew · Post by **ivanhoew** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:23 am

http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index ... ic=61219.0

bit of inspirational reading

Eliot · Post by **Eliot** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:37 am

ivanhoew wrote:http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index ... ic=61219.0

bit of inspirational reading

FWIW i'm running 9-10psi into a stock 4 bolt 350 sbc, albeit with ally heads. Runs 9.25:1 c/r

Ian Anderson · Post by **Ian Anderson** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:12 pm

And have the whole rotating unit balances together including the flywheel and clutch

ford managed to use 28 ounce and 50 ounce "out of balance" units and if you get the wrong flywheel you'll kill the whole lot very quickly.

If you are going to non Ford box better to get it zero balanced and a zero balanced flywheel

Carbs or normally a Holley 600cfm unit.

Ian

bones · Post by **bones** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:13 pm

thanks for the replies all, so using the stroker crank which is an eagle forged item is ok, the dart heads are ok, but if needed i could use the standard stuff, but use forged pistons, as for intercoolers ,not ,so what size roughly would be needed, and i might have the name wrong but what about a power charge cooler?? . i know its best to use injection but im no good with them ,so carb is the way i will go, and use a carb hat cover, so is an edelbrock 750 cfm ok . and pistons would be probe ones.

rich

ivanhoew · Post by **ivanhoew** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:30 am

bones wrote:thanks for the replies all, so using the stroker crank which is an eagle forged item is ok, the dart heads are ok, but if needed i could use the standard stuff, but use forged pistons, as for intercoolers ,not ,so what size roughly would be needed, and i might have the name wrong but what about a power charge cooler?? . i know its best to use injection but im no good with them ,so carb is the way i will go, and use a carb hat cover, so is an edelbrock 750 cfm ok . and pistons would be probe ones. rich

rich ,you can use the crank and heads ,no problem ,just its money you dont NEED to spend ,but it you have them allready ,and cant be fussed to sell em ,then theyre fine ,
the intercooler wants to be as big as you can fit in really ,bigger the better .
a charge cooler is another option ,but then you need a water pump and another rad for that etc , its a good thing for drag racing but again needs to be big ,you can fill it with iced water and that works well for 1/4 mile .

the 750 cfm carb ,hmm ,best thing to do is ask on turbo mustang forum ,i know there is a favourite blow through carb they talk about on there,'csu'' is it ?

pistons wize ,just make sure they are forged ,hypereutectic ones are more prone to brittle ring land shock damage from a bit of detonation ,whereas forged tends to be more elastic and resilient.
regards
robert

bones · Post by **bones** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:00 am

Hi Robert, yes it is a csu carb ive been looking at them $850 for a 750 carb which is good for 500 to a 1000 hp as for pistons had alook at probe ,they do a dished item with a 21cc dish and 8.75 comp or something like that, Could i use 2 small intercoolers ,one for each turbo. Stupid thing is i have no idea how they all plumb in, ive nearly worked out most of it, but where the exhaust fits what is the swing thing, and are these water cooled ?

rich

ivanhoew · Post by **ivanhoew** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:28 am

the swing thing is the wastegate ,you need to get a couple of actuators for them ,yes two intercoolers would work ,try to find something off a 300 bhp car in the breakers?and use 2.
yes they are watercooled ,its worth using this to help the turbo stay cooler .
youd take the compressed air from the outlet on the turbo ,to the intercooler ,then to the top hat on the carb ,you could have a top hat with 2 inlets ,or join the together from the 2 intercoolers and then feed one pipe to the top hat .

bones · Post by **bones** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:57 am

more ???, is the black bracket for the actuator, if it is i need one more of them ,and what actuator do i need ?? as in what car can i get it from, ive seen adjustabnle ones and pressure ones at 1.2 bar, but i havent a clue, some of the things i can get as time goes by,also there is a book called TURBOCHARGERS written by Hugh MacInnes although its an old book it does carbs and that in it ,is it worth getting

rich

ivanhoew · Post by **ivanhoew** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:50 pm

yes thats why i put in the ad youll need actuators and one more bracket rich

the wastgate actuators wil be for a sierra cosworth type t3,

as you say theres lots of choice and pretty colours , its best to get one a bit lower than the boost you want ,say 7 or 10 psi ,then bleed off the boost to it a it with a boost control valve , or 'mbv' manual boost control valve .
a couple of stock sierra ones would be fine unless you want to go all anodized blingtastic !
yes any books on turbo s are good to get , i feel the best is probably the haynes one by a graham bell ,
also there the turbochargers one by mcines ,bit old and not v specific on carbs ,
and the maximum boost one by corky bell ,which i personally dont recommend.