hey guys just saying hi and a bit about my car

[[/quote]]

its a mitsubishi starion 1982 model.
i have a rover 3.5 v8 from a range rover bolted into it, efi, with a 5speed from an sd1 i think.
so far i have done the following to it:
rebuilt with new rings, standard(but cryogenically treated) pistons and rods, bearings, and arp rod bolts.
i am going to be rebuilding the top end as well, the heads are currently in getting cleaned up and a bit of mild porting.
i also have a megasquirt ecu running it.
the plan is to fit two td04 turbo's, and hopefully see 400hp.
i dont have a digicam, so i will be putting up pictures a bit later when i have access to one.
other work done to the car includes GTO front coilovers, lsd, custom rear coilovers, recaro seats, completely stripped interior with custom dash.
its going to be a fast road car and compete in hillclimbs and track days.

i managed to lose almost 80kg by fitting the rover engine over the 4g63 turbo that was in it

[stevieturbo]

Project sounds cool...but in terms of gearing/rpm's The Mitis engine might have been a batter engine for 400bhp if you want any top speed, as it will rev.

Aside from that, sounds good.... a pair of TD04's should work very well, and are cheap as chips.

[ChrisJC]

standard(but cryogenically treated) pistons

Interesting - what are they?

Chris.

[chodjinn]

cryogenically treated? What the hell is that?!

400bhp from a near standard 3.5 . . . good luck mate you'll need it. I'd advices ARP head bolts as a must, possibly O-ring the block/heads as well.

There's a lot of debate and varied figures regarding turbos/forced induction and RV8 engines. SOme people reckon they won't handle much, yet some people run sill power. There's a fella in Aus with over 500bhp from a 3.5 litre with standard internals lol . . . but he was running a GT35 turbo.

what boost do you plan on running?

[Wotland]

cryogenically treated? What the hell is that?!

http://www.efunda.com/processes/heat_tr ... ogenic.cfm
http://www.frozensolid.co.uk/science.htm

Be curious to compare price of an set of standard cast pistons with cryogenic treatment and an set of forged pistons. With exchange rate at this time forged pistons in USA are good deal.

Ceramic coating makes more sense for me.

[ChrisJC]

Hmm. The first web link only mentioned benefits with ferrous materials.

The second one went on to discuss copper & aluminium. But as soon as it started spouting about 'benchmarking in the audio industry' alarm bells went off. Summary - a load of old te$ticles IMHO. Oxygen free copper, all that old tosh.

Chris.

[Wotland]

There is an long discussion on the NASIOC forum about cryogenic treatment : http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=816717

[chodjinn]

well given that its the first time I've heard of it as well, and no one that I know of has mentioned it either - and given that if it was as good as stated surely everyone would be doing it?! Yeah bunch of arse!

Wotland - can you actually get any forged pistons from the US that are direct fitment to Rover rods/block? I doubt it. So they may be cheap for the pistons, but then you ahve to add in machining the rod ends to suit, maybe boring the block . . . etc. etc. may as well throw your wallet down the drain while at it, or buy an LS1 lol. Sorry but I've seen the light, low cheap V8 power the RV8s are best at, high powered monsters they certainly ain't, not for bhp/£ value anyway.

[Ian Anderson]

I've heard about it in the past - but then it was done on high performance gears for transaxles.

Said ti increase the strength of the gears a large extent - but it ain't cheap

Ian

[ChrisJC]

There is an long discussion on the NASIOC forum about cryogenic treatment : http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=816717

Wow, I'm not reading all of that, life is too short!! I did read the first page though.

Be wary, lots of pseudoscience (long words, but no meaning). If I saw a scientific peer-reviewed paper I'd believe what it said. Some bloke selling a service doesn't have the same credibility. Did I say conflict of interest?

Chris.

[kiwicar]

Hi Codjinn
Buick 215 v8 pistons and Buick V6 pistons fit straight in (oh and rods), all aftermarket, all reasonably cheep (but not Chevy 350 307 327 cheep).
But you are right the rover is very good at cheep power at low (relativly) power levels and poo for higher power levels.
Mike

[Wotland]

To be short : cryogenic treatment helps to have an better crystallin structure of material and produces an better resistence again impact and wear. The technology started in research conducted by NASA in the 60's.
There are two types of DCT, "dry" and another process where the items actually come into contact with the LN2 (liquid Nitrogen, the "cryogen" used). This special process is not a surface treatment; it affects the entire mass of the tool or component being treated, making it stronger throughout.

What I wanted to say is I don't know if it is economical interesting to use cryo treated cast pistons in an 400BHP 3.5 Turbo. I am more curious how long pistons will be ok .

I have an set of forged Omega Pistons specially designed for turbo application and there are different not only because they are forged.

Depending manufacturer but turbo Pistons are made with split oil returns, forced dual pin oilers, anti-detonation, and accumulator grooves.

As long you use 3.5'' bore there are in USA forged pistons for Buick 215 and there is always the other option to use ACL pistons (not forged) from Holden 173 who are direct fit but who are heat treated to an equivalent of T6 heat treatment.

[chodjinn]

Let me get this straight, there are off the shelf forged pistons and matching rods for the Rover V8 you can get from the states?? They'll fit straight into my 3.9 litre block/crank without any modification whatsoever using say Clevite bearings and cause absolutely no issues, other than worrying about how much boost they'll take?!?!? poop.

Any links?

As for the cryo stuff, yeah sure it's probably sound theory but I'd rather spend the money on proper forged items. You'd be a bit pissed if you spunked a bunch of money on cryo only to find it has absolutely no effect on increasing piston strength in a forced induction application.

[kiwicar]

Buick 215 is the 3.5 version of the rover, however check the Buick v6 bits as I think they are the 3.9 bore (or some are anyway) as regards rods, Buick V6 and 215 go straight in. Go for a hunt on the JE pistons website (and other 'merkin) piston manufacturer's websites.
The Buick V6 was/is derived from the 215 V8 (what rover bought when it bought the rover V8 you know) when Rover did the 6R4 bottom end they didn't "chop two cylinders off a rover V8" they went out and bought off the shelf a Buick V6 bottom end and stuck a 12v cylinder head on it. the Buick V6 has had alot of GM money thrown at its development over the years, it was used in Indy car racing for a good number of years and as a base for turbocharged Drag racing.
After the rover V8 came out over here they were still using them in the states for a good few years, and in Australia as some 4.5L holden lump the Buick 300 and 340 are derived from it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V8_engine#215
If you have the larger bore then some Chevy pistons can be used with a very slight ajustment in bore and either slightly narrowed chevy rods or a different little end bore in the rod.
Best regards
Mike

[stevieturbo]

Said ti increase the strength of the gears a large extent - but it ain't cheap

Ian

The hears in my T56 were cryo treated. It was about $300 to cover that when it was built.

Its been around for years, and is suppose to offer good benefits.


For rods and pistons, I'd say its a load of balls though. Just buy decent parts to start with.