Grateful to you both as ever.
Been up at the Tuners today. Discussed the matter in some detail. The reconditionned AFM had the flap and base plate had been filed by the "reconditioners" - thugs.
Now the situation: They are really being challenged by this car. They have taken the matter on as a project and seem to be genuinely well intended to rectify the matters. They are a big set-up outfit and very busy.
Now - new (lucas) TPS fitted, voltages spot on. Old TPS - mouldy inside - get that. Intermittent short when wires wiggled, missed when on standard initial testing. So - TPS resolved.
Wiring loom - fully checked at sensor level, individual wire continuity and resistance. Readings from sensors checked at pins relevant to circuit. ECU working fine.
Now - won't start on cold. Pulling massive air amounts on startup causing flap to fly open and over fueling unit.
injectors - removed, cleaned, balanced and checked for spray pattern - all good. Fuel pressure - checked on both sides of the fuel rail, 2.5Bar balanced. Fuel pressure regulator - new unit from RPI - working perfectly.
When the flap is held and engine starts, runs sweet as a nut when warm. Drives perfectly as was jumpy with dodgy TPS - expected that.
Disconnect flame trap breather pipe - CO level changes by 5% !!!!!!! expected 1-2%.
Breather and vacuum pipes - all checked patent, no leaks and secure. Throttle lever assy - fine. Throttle leaks - nil. Butterfly - correct adjustment.
The thing is very baffling as all that is happening is that when starting it is massively rich and over-fueling. Remove plug to 9th injector - minimal difference.
So why so much vacuum on a 26D engine variant and and EFi setup and the massive CO variant. Oh - new oil contaminated by fuel, changed to new, proper grade thick oil (same as Halfords Classic Engine Oil).
Totally confused as even the diode pack is fine. It would result in one or two injectors being crappy but not all 8 (they are fine on the rig).
Timing - spot on. Using Mallory MBI dizzy, set-up correct (remember runs and drives absolutely fine when warm). Just over rich when starting.
When adjusting AFM potentiometer to the very end (almost off the scale) it starts first turn, then runs like a pile of shovel stuff, put it back to normal setting, won't start. Adjust spring balance - still same.
Grief or what?
So come on u wizards - it this an engine problem, fuel problem or what?
Oh, AFM was fully calibrated on test rig when re-assembled as it needed a new body.
Help.
Doc
Too rich / too lean
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OK - is the extra-air valve connected correctly. It takes it air from a port on the plenum neck on the rear side (mixed in with the throttle levers). It runs under the plenum and into the valve. Then it comes out of the valve, through 180deg and into the plenum.
The port on the opposite side of the plenum neck is a breather that should go into the rocker cover flame trap above cyl. 2
I guess what you are saying is that when cold it draws much more air, and given that the butterfly is shut, there are only those two possible areas for errors? I can't think of any other ways that air could go through the AFM and end up in the engine without going through the butterfly???
Chris.
The port on the opposite side of the plenum neck is a breather that should go into the rocker cover flame trap above cyl. 2
I guess what you are saying is that when cold it draws much more air, and given that the butterfly is shut, there are only those two possible areas for errors? I can't think of any other ways that air could go through the AFM and end up in the engine without going through the butterfly???
Chris.
--
Series IIA 4.6 V8
R/R P38 4.6 V8
R/R L405 4.4 SDV8
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R/R P38 4.6 V8
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ramon alban
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Re: Air mixture
Hello Doc, More enigmas wrapped up in a puzzle. Responses in Colour.
Discussed the matter in some detail. The reconditionned AFM had the flap and base plate had been filed by the "reconditioners".
So the unit is Toast and consigned to the skip, thank goodness for that!
Now the situation: They are really being challenged by this car. They have taken the matter on as a project and seem to be genuinely well intended to rectify the matters. They are a big set-up outfit and very busy.
Signs of contrition?
New (lucas) TPS fitted, voltages spot on. Old TPS - mouldy inside - get that. Intermittent short when wires wiggled, missed when on standard initial testing. So - TPS resolved.
I guess this confirms the earlier comments on the thread about the Testing process. As you saw from my last post it would be a cinch to diagnose.
Wiring loom - fully checked at sensor level, individual wire continuity and resistance. Readings from sensors checked at pins relevant to circuit. ECU working fine.
Those tests at the ECU multiplug are confirmation that the sensors are all well connected.
Now - won't start on cold. Pulling massive air amounts on startup causing flap to fly open and over fueling unit.
Now, I agree 100% with what Chris Says - it just aint possible
EXCEPT and UNLESS the Compensating flap on the AFM is also modified or is mismatched to the body, so there is no damping effect when the flap first moves.
AS per this quote from my website AFM article
"The measuring flap (MF) is closed on to its stop by a light spring (FR), and is opened by the air being drawn into the engine and as the measuring flap opens, the compensating flap (CF) moves into the damper chamber."
So, with no damping the flap just opens fully, tells the ECU to pump fuel thro' the injectors like Niagra Falls floods the engine which cannot start because all the sparks are quenched.
Imaging if you will, A fuel load of fuel whilst cranking and the throttle is shut. Which probably means the the TOASTED AFM is still being used or you have more toast.
There is loadsa stuff on AFM compensating flaps and damping chambers on my website - well worth a read, especially by your thugs.
Injectors - removed, cleaned, balanced and checked for spray pattern - all good. Fuel pressure - checked on both sides of the fuel rail, 2.5Bar balanced. Fuel pressure regulator - new unit from RPI - working perfectly.
OK
When the flap is held and engine starts, runs sweet as a nut when warm. Drives perfectly as was jumpy with dodgy TPS - expected that.
Flap held means that no damping is needed so no consequental flooding.
DONT understand how the engine can run smoothly tho' without flap damping so maybe it aint the problem after all
Disconnect flame trap breather pipe - CO level changes by 5% !!!!!!! expected 1-2%.
I have no idea what to expect but with the constant suck of foul (heavily contaminated with Carbon impurities?) crankcase air regulated by a properly functioning breather system (balanced by that tiny hole on the LH rocker cover), now open to atmosphere the Plenum now has a deliberate air leak via the open breather port and can SUCK any amount of air it wishes depending upon manifold depression and port diameter. So one might expect the CO to change because the mixture being burned has changed, but by how much and which way will it go?.
I guess this must be an empirical test by your Tuning Expert to see what happens compared to the last time they did it on another system, but if they do a test and the result is not as expected then they should also be able to diagnose the symptoms. I've got no idea coz I never been there. The test does not appear in the official Rover/Land Rover technician training manuals as far as I am aware.
Breather and vacuum pipes - all checked patent, no leaks and secure. Throttle lever assy - fine. Throttle leaks - nil. Butterfly - correct adjustment.
Good Good.
The thing is very baffling as all that is happening is that when starting it is massively rich and over-fueling. Remove plug to 9th injector - minimal difference.
Because its not faulty and only pumps fuel in quite cold conditions..
So why so much vacuum on a 26D engine variant and and EFi setup and the massive CO variant.
Firstly when an engine starts from stationary if the throttle is opened it sucks oodles, but if the throttle is not opened it sucks not very much at all. Already explained as a possible AFM fault - logically - based on your described symptoms,
BUT lets suppose the AFM is NOT faulty, what else could happen?
What if the AFM and the engine are simply not matched to the ECU. which bring us back to the hybrid issue previously mentioned.
What if the AFM came from an 9.75 to 1 engine (like mine = very common) but is fitted to an ex-carb 9.35 to 1 engine How much SUCKING difference would there be?
How much fuel would the ECU try to deliver if it were an ex Jaguar AFM (for example) or if the internal spring on the AFM has been maladjusted towards being far too slack by someone- anyone, hence making it run rich?
These Lucas Flapjack AFM's were all the same basic unit - just differently calibrated for their intended use.
I cant answer these questions but they are fair questions. that should be addressed
Oh - new oil contaminated by fuel, changed to new, proper grade thick oil (same as Halfords Classic Engine Oil).
Oil contamination due to aforementioned flooding.
Totally confused as even the diode pack is fine. It would result in one or two injectors being crappy but not all 8 (they are fine on the rig).
There are no diodes hereabouts, so do you mean "Resistor Pack". If so it just drops voltage for the injectors to run on 3 volts. When it goes faulty its usually open circuit which just prevents the affected injectors from opening. NOT a flooding situation - normally
Timing - spot on. Using Mallory MBI dizzy, set-up correct (remember runs and drives absolutely fine when warm). Just over rich when starting.
Not familiar with Mallory, et al - sorry doc.
When adjusting AFM potentiometer to the very end (almost off the scale) it starts first turn, then runs like a pile of shovel stuff, put it back to normal setting, won't start. Adjust spring balance - still same.
What is the NORMAL setting? Possibly where the last person left it? This is commonly known as uninformed maladjustment.
Suggest a good read of pages 9 thro 12. Then using a CO meter adjust the AFM spring until the CO is correct over the whole throttle range. - not just idle.
Well thats the theory - never been there myself, but I read bunches about it before I wrote that essay. I truly believe it to be 100% correct but am open to errors and omissions.
Grief or what?
Unimaginable?
So come on u wizards - it this an engine problem, fuel problem or what?
Yes its a fuel problem. Unless (says he with tongue in cheek) its a cam problem and there is a lot of out of sequence sucking going on.
Oh, AFM was fully calibrated on test rig when re-assembled as it needed a new body.
Did the new body match the existing parts from the old body?
Long before most home enthusiasts reach this point they borrow a known good unit from a similar car and see if that works - suggest that is a way to go!
Help.
Enough already???
Edited regarding semantics. 13/10/08
Discussed the matter in some detail. The reconditionned AFM had the flap and base plate had been filed by the "reconditioners".
So the unit is Toast and consigned to the skip, thank goodness for that!
Now the situation: They are really being challenged by this car. They have taken the matter on as a project and seem to be genuinely well intended to rectify the matters. They are a big set-up outfit and very busy.
Signs of contrition?
New (lucas) TPS fitted, voltages spot on. Old TPS - mouldy inside - get that. Intermittent short when wires wiggled, missed when on standard initial testing. So - TPS resolved.
I guess this confirms the earlier comments on the thread about the Testing process. As you saw from my last post it would be a cinch to diagnose.
Wiring loom - fully checked at sensor level, individual wire continuity and resistance. Readings from sensors checked at pins relevant to circuit. ECU working fine.
Those tests at the ECU multiplug are confirmation that the sensors are all well connected.
Now - won't start on cold. Pulling massive air amounts on startup causing flap to fly open and over fueling unit.
Now, I agree 100% with what Chris Says - it just aint possible
EXCEPT and UNLESS the Compensating flap on the AFM is also modified or is mismatched to the body, so there is no damping effect when the flap first moves.
AS per this quote from my website AFM article
"The measuring flap (MF) is closed on to its stop by a light spring (FR), and is opened by the air being drawn into the engine and as the measuring flap opens, the compensating flap (CF) moves into the damper chamber."
So, with no damping the flap just opens fully, tells the ECU to pump fuel thro' the injectors like Niagra Falls floods the engine which cannot start because all the sparks are quenched.
Imaging if you will, A fuel load of fuel whilst cranking and the throttle is shut. Which probably means the the TOASTED AFM is still being used or you have more toast.
There is loadsa stuff on AFM compensating flaps and damping chambers on my website - well worth a read, especially by your thugs.
Injectors - removed, cleaned, balanced and checked for spray pattern - all good. Fuel pressure - checked on both sides of the fuel rail, 2.5Bar balanced. Fuel pressure regulator - new unit from RPI - working perfectly.
OK
When the flap is held and engine starts, runs sweet as a nut when warm. Drives perfectly as was jumpy with dodgy TPS - expected that.
Flap held means that no damping is needed so no consequental flooding.
DONT understand how the engine can run smoothly tho' without flap damping so maybe it aint the problem after all
Disconnect flame trap breather pipe - CO level changes by 5% !!!!!!! expected 1-2%.
I have no idea what to expect but with the constant suck of foul (heavily contaminated with Carbon impurities?) crankcase air regulated by a properly functioning breather system (balanced by that tiny hole on the LH rocker cover), now open to atmosphere the Plenum now has a deliberate air leak via the open breather port and can SUCK any amount of air it wishes depending upon manifold depression and port diameter. So one might expect the CO to change because the mixture being burned has changed, but by how much and which way will it go?.
I guess this must be an empirical test by your Tuning Expert to see what happens compared to the last time they did it on another system, but if they do a test and the result is not as expected then they should also be able to diagnose the symptoms. I've got no idea coz I never been there. The test does not appear in the official Rover/Land Rover technician training manuals as far as I am aware.
Breather and vacuum pipes - all checked patent, no leaks and secure. Throttle lever assy - fine. Throttle leaks - nil. Butterfly - correct adjustment.
Good Good.
The thing is very baffling as all that is happening is that when starting it is massively rich and over-fueling. Remove plug to 9th injector - minimal difference.
Because its not faulty and only pumps fuel in quite cold conditions..
So why so much vacuum on a 26D engine variant and and EFi setup and the massive CO variant.
Firstly when an engine starts from stationary if the throttle is opened it sucks oodles, but if the throttle is not opened it sucks not very much at all. Already explained as a possible AFM fault - logically - based on your described symptoms,
BUT lets suppose the AFM is NOT faulty, what else could happen?
What if the AFM and the engine are simply not matched to the ECU. which bring us back to the hybrid issue previously mentioned.
What if the AFM came from an 9.75 to 1 engine (like mine = very common) but is fitted to an ex-carb 9.35 to 1 engine How much SUCKING difference would there be?
How much fuel would the ECU try to deliver if it were an ex Jaguar AFM (for example) or if the internal spring on the AFM has been maladjusted towards being far too slack by someone- anyone, hence making it run rich?
These Lucas Flapjack AFM's were all the same basic unit - just differently calibrated for their intended use.
I cant answer these questions but they are fair questions. that should be addressed
Oh - new oil contaminated by fuel, changed to new, proper grade thick oil (same as Halfords Classic Engine Oil).
Oil contamination due to aforementioned flooding.
Totally confused as even the diode pack is fine. It would result in one or two injectors being crappy but not all 8 (they are fine on the rig).
There are no diodes hereabouts, so do you mean "Resistor Pack". If so it just drops voltage for the injectors to run on 3 volts. When it goes faulty its usually open circuit which just prevents the affected injectors from opening. NOT a flooding situation - normally
Timing - spot on. Using Mallory MBI dizzy, set-up correct (remember runs and drives absolutely fine when warm). Just over rich when starting.
Not familiar with Mallory, et al - sorry doc.
When adjusting AFM potentiometer to the very end (almost off the scale) it starts first turn, then runs like a pile of shovel stuff, put it back to normal setting, won't start. Adjust spring balance - still same.
What is the NORMAL setting? Possibly where the last person left it? This is commonly known as uninformed maladjustment.
Suggest a good read of pages 9 thro 12. Then using a CO meter adjust the AFM spring until the CO is correct over the whole throttle range. - not just idle.
Well thats the theory - never been there myself, but I read bunches about it before I wrote that essay. I truly believe it to be 100% correct but am open to errors and omissions.
Grief or what?
Unimaginable?
So come on u wizards - it this an engine problem, fuel problem or what?
Yes its a fuel problem. Unless (says he with tongue in cheek) its a cam problem and there is a lot of out of sequence sucking going on.
Oh, AFM was fully calibrated on test rig when re-assembled as it needed a new body.
Did the new body match the existing parts from the old body?
Long before most home enthusiasts reach this point they borrow a known good unit from a similar car and see if that works - suggest that is a way to go!
Help.
Enough already???
Edited regarding semantics. 13/10/08
Last edited by ramon alban on Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dangerdoc
mongrel
Hi guys,
Not sure that the beast should be slagged of continuously as being a mongrel suggesting it is a clump of odd bits chucked together.
Everything is genuine landrover parts - the engine, all the new sensors, the correct injectors and so on, oh including a genuine 4CU ECU.
The only thing that is different is the ignition system dizzy, hyfire 6A unit and the promaster coil, ah yes the HT leads are Mallory 8mm as well. That's not really a whole clump of nonsense, it way exceeds the original spec and is not contributing to anything other than a really good spark at the right time.
I agree that there may be a plumbing issue in terms of the breathers.
As for the AFM, well that has been calibrated to the ECU and has been fully checked to suit the body and a seperate AFM is also available to the tuner lads.
I am more likely to believe a problem with the plumbing (it has to be something simple in view of all the readings and loom checking out correct throughout the system and the ECU now being spot on).
So maybe lets leave slagging off the thing as a mongrel or maybe every other unit in here is a shabby mongrel as well.
Need constructive and focused comments which are a trememdous help. Undermining anything other than a "fully and totally original" system is not being constructive.
Maybe I missed some sarcasm and it has been a tremendously difficult weekend (no sleep yet !!!).
Doc
Not sure that the beast should be slagged of continuously as being a mongrel suggesting it is a clump of odd bits chucked together.
Everything is genuine landrover parts - the engine, all the new sensors, the correct injectors and so on, oh including a genuine 4CU ECU.
The only thing that is different is the ignition system dizzy, hyfire 6A unit and the promaster coil, ah yes the HT leads are Mallory 8mm as well. That's not really a whole clump of nonsense, it way exceeds the original spec and is not contributing to anything other than a really good spark at the right time.
I agree that there may be a plumbing issue in terms of the breathers.
As for the AFM, well that has been calibrated to the ECU and has been fully checked to suit the body and a seperate AFM is also available to the tuner lads.
I am more likely to believe a problem with the plumbing (it has to be something simple in view of all the readings and loom checking out correct throughout the system and the ECU now being spot on).
So maybe lets leave slagging off the thing as a mongrel or maybe every other unit in here is a shabby mongrel as well.
Need constructive and focused comments which are a trememdous help. Undermining anything other than a "fully and totally original" system is not being constructive.
Maybe I missed some sarcasm and it has been a tremendously difficult weekend (no sleep yet !!!).
Doc
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ramon alban
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dangerdoc wrote:Need constructive and focused comments which are a trememdous help. Undermining anything other than a "fully and totally original" system is not being constructive.
Oh Dear! Sorry Doc
if you got teed off with some semantics so I've substituted the word "hybrid", which it clearly is, to emphasis the point being made in this perfectly serious observation:Suggest you get some sleep and review the focussed comments to establish where you are and please remember, we are probably where we are because of the the hired help.ramon alban wrote:What if the AFM and the engine are simply not matched to the ECU. which bring us back to the hybrid issue previously mentioned.
Ramon
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jefferybond
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To be honest, I wouldn't believe a word of that and chuck the AFM in the skip, especially if it's been 'filed' etc. I'd try replacing it with a stock AFM that hasn't been 'calibrated'/butchered in any way.Dangerdoc wrote: As for the AFM, well that has been calibrated to the ECU and has been fully checked to suit the body and a seperate AFM is also available to the tuner lads.
Jeff
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Dangerdoc
the final installment
Hi All,
Well the car is fixed, running sweet and passed the MOT with not even an advisory (thought it would though).
The problems were several:
1. ECU was goosed and needed re-building
2. The AFM had a goosed body and was rebuilt cheaper than a recon or new
3. TPS was goosed, mouldy inside - replaced
4. Wiring loom had an intermittent faulty connection
5. The mallory promaster coil (remember dual coil setup) was goosed but did not show up on any tests or the scope so the field was collapsing twice - not all the time but frequently and intermittently though, thus triggering the injectors to fire more frequently than they should.
The usual tests on the coil did not yield a result but discussions with century performance components and mallory revealed that this is not uncommon !!!!!
So once we stripped out the mallory system completely and resorted to the Lucas DML8, amp and OEM coil - ran fine. Substituting the dizzy - ran fine with the mallory MBI unit in place.
Dropped in the promaster coil - ran then died, ran fine hot, sod to get started from cold, replaced promaster coil - ran fine.
Inserted Hyfire 6A ign unit - runs sweet as a nut and a massive spark at all plugs.
Lessons learned:
Even with the very best kit, not every problem can be detected, sometimes we have to resort to substitution of components even if they test OK.
Way ahead - you will love this:
Considering stripping out ALL EFi stuff and running 100% on LPG as not going through this nonsense again - ever lol, well maybe a few more times.
To all the advice and assistance - guys I take my hat off to you all and say a massive thank you.
Ramon - you are a wizard, Chris - nice one mate. Appreciate it all.
Now to post on the LPG side of the forum - go have a peek.
Doc
Well the car is fixed, running sweet and passed the MOT with not even an advisory (thought it would though).
The problems were several:
1. ECU was goosed and needed re-building
2. The AFM had a goosed body and was rebuilt cheaper than a recon or new
3. TPS was goosed, mouldy inside - replaced
4. Wiring loom had an intermittent faulty connection
5. The mallory promaster coil (remember dual coil setup) was goosed but did not show up on any tests or the scope so the field was collapsing twice - not all the time but frequently and intermittently though, thus triggering the injectors to fire more frequently than they should.
The usual tests on the coil did not yield a result but discussions with century performance components and mallory revealed that this is not uncommon !!!!!
So once we stripped out the mallory system completely and resorted to the Lucas DML8, amp and OEM coil - ran fine. Substituting the dizzy - ran fine with the mallory MBI unit in place.
Dropped in the promaster coil - ran then died, ran fine hot, sod to get started from cold, replaced promaster coil - ran fine.
Inserted Hyfire 6A ign unit - runs sweet as a nut and a massive spark at all plugs.
Lessons learned:
Even with the very best kit, not every problem can be detected, sometimes we have to resort to substitution of components even if they test OK.
Way ahead - you will love this:
Considering stripping out ALL EFi stuff and running 100% on LPG as not going through this nonsense again - ever lol, well maybe a few more times.
To all the advice and assistance - guys I take my hat off to you all and say a massive thank you.
Ramon - you are a wizard, Chris - nice one mate. Appreciate it all.
Now to post on the LPG side of the forum - go have a peek.
Doc
I've got the flapper EFi on my van, and it's never caused me any problems.... (of course that may change in 10 mins when I start her up!).
The LPG system, although much simpler has caused me no end of niggles.
The ignition system has been the biggest nuisance, and that is because I had a coil go intermittent.
I think the problem with the EFi is that it's not obvious from looking at it what the problem might be (same as everything electronic). The learning curve with it is also fairly steep, trying to understand what does which when kind of thing. But when you do understand it, keeping it running nicely is fairly easy.
My biggest tip would be to have a known good set of all the components in stock, so fault-finding is a quick matter of swapping bits in & out until it works again!
And also to stick with Rover stuff. In spite of Rovers reputation, people seem to have much less bother with Rover stuff than aftermarket 'improvements'!
Chris.
The LPG system, although much simpler has caused me no end of niggles.
The ignition system has been the biggest nuisance, and that is because I had a coil go intermittent.
I think the problem with the EFi is that it's not obvious from looking at it what the problem might be (same as everything electronic). The learning curve with it is also fairly steep, trying to understand what does which when kind of thing. But when you do understand it, keeping it running nicely is fairly easy.
My biggest tip would be to have a known good set of all the components in stock, so fault-finding is a quick matter of swapping bits in & out until it works again!
And also to stick with Rover stuff. In spite of Rovers reputation, people seem to have much less bother with Rover stuff than aftermarket 'improvements'!
Chris.
--
Series IIA 4.6 V8
R/R P38 4.6 V8
R/R L405 4.4 SDV8
Series IIA 4.6 V8
R/R P38 4.6 V8
R/R L405 4.4 SDV8
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CastleMGBV8
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ramon alban
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Re: the final installment
Hello Doc,Dangerdoc wrote:Well the car is fixed, running sweet and passed the MOT ----- To all the advice and assistance - guys I take my hat off to you all and say a massive thank you.
Wizardry? - Not really! With your long list of problems from the get-go, no amount of logical diagnosis was going to succeed.
OFF TOPIC.
Similar to what my Neurologist said to me last month when he threw me onto the scrap heap of life.
"Mr A? With so many things going on and so many overlapping symptoms you are a very difficult case to treat!"
So, Mr Hospital Doc, one good turn deserves another! Can you please diagnose this?
More in "about me".
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ramon alban
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For the Flapper Efi system, you and me both, Chris!ChrisJC wrote:I've got the flapper EFi on my van, and it's never caused me any problems.... (of course that may change in 10 mins when I start her up!). ------ The ignition system has been the biggest nuisance,
15 years without a serious hitch, ---- once I got the measure of it! 
And if mine goes wrong in the next 10 minutes too, can I blame you, or we can always call on each other, being only 20 miles adrift, as it were. Or better still get the Doc to do the diagnosis. He's an expert now!
Now as far as the ignition system is concerned I have a query.
What are the actual colours of the two wires of the signal cable connection seen in this image (click the link to view) of an earlier RV8 ign module?
They look like Blue or Blue/White AND Red or Red/Black.
One would need sight of an actual unit to be sure.
http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?act=a ... t&id=16812
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Ian Anderson
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- Location: Edinburgh
Ramon
I'd say your chassis has taken a bit of a knock,
The main loom has beed constricted through a kink in the conduit
Your suspension needs rebuilt
And the oil appears to be contaminated.
Makes my aches and pains appear minor now
Ian
I'd say your chassis has taken a bit of a knock,
The main loom has beed constricted through a kink in the conduit
Your suspension needs rebuilt
And the oil appears to be contaminated.
Makes my aches and pains appear minor now
Ian
Owner of an "On the Road" GT40 Replica by DAX powered by 3.9Hotwre Efi, worked over by DJ Motors. EFi Working but still does some kangaroo at low revs (Damn the speed limits) In to paint shop 18/03/08.
Re: Too rich / too lean
Hello everyone
first, I want to apologize for my English, my mother tongue being French.
I come to this old topic because I have the same problem on an RRC 87 with a 24D 3.5Efi 4CU (flapper) engine.
the vehicle arrived with difficult acceleration, and a mixture that was too lean when cold and when hot.
the uncertain origin of the car (I just know that it comes from Italy!!!)
after a visual check, I see that many parts have been changed (x8 injectors, TPS, CTS, FPR, fuel pump.... or repaired (ea: ECU and AFM) by the old user.
First, I checked the tightness of the plenum and the loss of depression of the rotten pipes, all ok
after a lot of research to find the technical doc, I found this interesting document: https://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/flapperEFI.pdf
which allows me to have the control values....
first and before I checked the ignition timing 10° at 850rpm
1- fuel pressure set at 2.5 Bars
2- TPS set at 0.325V closed and varies towards 4.2V fully open
3- CTS 2450 ohms at 20°and 260 ohms at 80°
4- ATS 2300 ohms at 20° and 1000 ohms at 40°
5- AFM voltage 3.6V closed and decrease 1.5V to open
all the tests go in the same direction and are within the given values
All the results being in the right values and checked with a colleague who knows these injections.
I deduce that the ECU may be defective... I find a second-hand replacement ECU (certified good according to the seller)
I connect, the engine runs rich, much too rich runs like a potato and smokes black like an old diesel.
I read somewhere here that this ECU needs to be tuned with its AFM.....is it true???? (already replace AFM on Alpha or other Porsche L-jetronic and never had to calibrate one on the other).
I admit that I lost a lot of hair (and money) with this old camel and I don't really know what to do with it anymore
if anyone in the group has a bright idea, it is welcome
THANKS
ps: by reading this thread, I learn of the death of Ramon Alban already for 2 years today, all my regrets to his family and his friends
its website is not continued,
this gentleman left on his last journey with all his science and knowledge
first, I want to apologize for my English, my mother tongue being French.
I come to this old topic because I have the same problem on an RRC 87 with a 24D 3.5Efi 4CU (flapper) engine.
the vehicle arrived with difficult acceleration, and a mixture that was too lean when cold and when hot.
the uncertain origin of the car (I just know that it comes from Italy!!!)
after a visual check, I see that many parts have been changed (x8 injectors, TPS, CTS, FPR, fuel pump.... or repaired (ea: ECU and AFM) by the old user.
First, I checked the tightness of the plenum and the loss of depression of the rotten pipes, all ok
after a lot of research to find the technical doc, I found this interesting document: https://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/flapperEFI.pdf
which allows me to have the control values....
first and before I checked the ignition timing 10° at 850rpm
1- fuel pressure set at 2.5 Bars
2- TPS set at 0.325V closed and varies towards 4.2V fully open
3- CTS 2450 ohms at 20°and 260 ohms at 80°
4- ATS 2300 ohms at 20° and 1000 ohms at 40°
5- AFM voltage 3.6V closed and decrease 1.5V to open
all the tests go in the same direction and are within the given values
All the results being in the right values and checked with a colleague who knows these injections.
I deduce that the ECU may be defective... I find a second-hand replacement ECU (certified good according to the seller)
I connect, the engine runs rich, much too rich runs like a potato and smokes black like an old diesel.
I read somewhere here that this ECU needs to be tuned with its AFM.....is it true???? (already replace AFM on Alpha or other Porsche L-jetronic and never had to calibrate one on the other).
I admit that I lost a lot of hair (and money) with this old camel and I don't really know what to do with it anymore
if anyone in the group has a bright idea, it is welcome
THANKS
ps: by reading this thread, I learn of the death of Ramon Alban already for 2 years today, all my regrets to his family and his friends
its website is not continued,
this gentleman left on his last journey with all his science and knowledge
