What a DJE stage 3?

chris-stockton · Post by **chris-stockton** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:38 pm

Hello, so following on from my other thread on the strip down of my westfield V8, im trying to figure out what has "Actually" been done to the engine, i was given a spec, but no receipts for the engine work, of which most came from the above, im led to believe.
The spec i was told:

stage 3 DJE heads
5 angle seats,
throats opened out,
shortened and tapered guides,
spring platforms machined for the extra lift on the cam and skimmed for use with composite gaskets.
The combustion chambers volumes were matched and I think it had a 10.5:1 CR.
valves = wasted stem and had some mods to the back face.

now i have measured them and they appear to be stock sized valves. 40mm/34mm

ive attached some pics below, they have no steam seals fitted which will explain the oil consumption...

sidecar · Post by **sidecar** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:17 pm

What a 'stage' is is very subjective but in my mind stage III is basically doing everything to the heads that can be done within reason, therefore in my mind stage III is a head with gas flowed inlet and exhaust tracks along their full length, the guides will be shortened and bulletted, the seats will have an angle job done on them AND larger valves would have been fitted.

BTW running without valve seals is a bit 'naff' in my humble, the back of the valves soon get covered in carbon which reduces gas flow, the oil will marginally make the engine more prone to detonation. Many machine shops can cut the end of the guides so that 'blue' seals can be fitted.

I have heard mention stage 4 before now, I suppose that would be moving the seats, converting the inlets to down draught, that sort of thing!

sidecar · Post by **sidecar** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:43 pm

It looks to me like the valve guides have just been pushed further into the inlet and exhaust tracks, I hope the 'other end' has been shortened otherwise they will not be helping your engine 'flow'.

chris-stockton · Post by **chris-stockton** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:36 pm

hard to see from the pics, but the inlets protrude around 9.5mm and the exh about 3.5mm

Darkspeed · Post by **Darkspeed** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:06 pm

All DJE heads have DJE and the Stage S1 S2 S3 stamped on the end of the head.

From DJE literature - Stage 3 = Mid size valves

They look and sound like DJE S2 heads but this would be stamped on the heads.

On the stage 2 and 3 very little work in the ports upstream of the seats was done and that looks the case on those heads.

Andrew

chris-stockton · Post by **chris-stockton** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:22 pm

hello, just had a look and heres a pic form each end..

Darkspeed · Post by **Darkspeed** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:20 am

They look like standard heads that someone with little idea about porting has had a play around with using a hand drill. Just about but not quite removing the casting marks.

You would need to give the valves a good clean up to see if there is a back cut on the valve and de-carbon the exhaust ports to see if there has been any material removed.

I will take a snap of the front of a pair of DJE S2 heads I have. And if I can dig up what the ports and seats of what is typically appreciated to be a Stage 3 should look like.

Andrew

SimpleSimon · Post by **SimpleSimon** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:24 pm

Darkspeed wrote:They look like standard heads that someone with little idea about porting has had a play around with using a hand drill. Just about but not quite removing the casting marks.

Andrew

Quite frankly they are not up to much

Cobratone · Post by **Cobratone** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:54 pm

My thoughts on DJE have been said on this forum before, basically I wouldn't p**s on him if he was on fire so can quite easily understand the "quality" of those heads

sidecar · Post by **sidecar** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:50 pm

Well whatever your definition of stage III, I think that we all agree that these heads certainly are not stage III

Darkspeed · Post by **Darkspeed** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:52 pm

sidecar wrote:Well whatever your definition of stage III, I think that we all agree that these heads certainly are not stage III

If a stage description needed then less than or equal to 1 would be the best

DJE - Not the greatest of reputations and mainly known for his legendary ability to upset customers.

Stage 3 - Not DJE

And although mid size valves and having a reasonable amount of port work done they are far from comprehensively ported.

mgbv8 · Post by **mgbv8** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:23 pm

chris-stockton wrote:Hello, so following on from my other thread on the strip down of my westfield V8, im trying to figure out what has "Actually" been done to the engine, i was given a spec, but no receipts for the engine work, of which most came from the above, im led to believe.
The spec i was told:

stage 3 DJE heads
5 angle seats,
throats opened out,
shortened and tapered guides,
spring platforms machined for the extra lift on the cam and skimmed for use with composite gaskets.
The combustion chambers volumes were matched and I think it had a 10.5:1 CR.
valves = wasted stem and had some mods to the back face.

now i have measured them and they appear to be stock sized valves. 40mm/34mm

ive attached some pics below, they have no steam seals fitted which will explain the oil consumption...

I may be old and senile but I can see valve stem seals in those pictures?
It looks like the tops of the valve guides have been hacked away to almost nothing and the seals fitted on top. The spring pans may have been sunk down a little as well. But if the spring pans have been machined down they are normally taken down more than required so you can fit shims under the springs to make sure the fitted spring height is correct. The bottoms of the valve guides have also been hacked away, and not very tidily. The ports around the valve guides look like they have been done by a day 1 apprentice who does not know how to use a die grinder. The actual inlet ports have not been touched by the looks of it as the cut outs for the injectors seem intact. From what I can see in those pictures I am NOT impressed to be honest. I have thrown out better heads that I have worked on myself. My current heads are way better than those and I did them in my shed. And I'm a Plumber

I dont want to rain on your parade mate, but those heads are nothing special I'm afraid

sidecar · Post by **sidecar** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:38 am

I can not see any valve stem seals, just the bare top of the guides!

SimpleSimon · Post by **SimpleSimon** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:58 pm

sidecar wrote:I can not see any valve stem seals, just the bare top of the guides!

Neither can I

but agree with the rest of what Perry said

Baracus · Post by **Baracus** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:29 pm

A poor stage 1 at best. They look like someone has spent all of 5 minutes pissing about with a cartridge roll not really knowing what they are doing, and evidently couldn't be arsed to remove the guides to do the porting or cut the spring seats.

"5 angle seat" shouts of marketing bollocks, i've never managed/needed to get any more than 4 functional cuts, i could stick a fifth cut on for the sheer hell of it but it would do sweet fanny adams.

Power-wise potential wise, i'd say almost exactly the same as a stock set of ERC0216's or similar.

Can't tell from the pics, has there been any attempt at deshrouding & chamber work?

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What a DJE stage 3?

What a DJE stage 3?

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