My RV8 drinks water but where ?

Wotland · Post by **Wotland** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:09 pm

Hi All,
I would like to ask you your advice because now I haven't any more idea.
I have a Land Rover Defender 50Th Anniversary with 4.0 RV8 Gems engine.
The engine has around 100.000Km. He is equiped with sequential injection LPG and was remapped.
The main problem, my engine drinks a little water every day. I adjust water level every week of 1/4litre.
The most amazing : no problem of overheating and we have pressure tested the block, checked radiator, heater matrix, all hoses,... and nothing at all. .
Someone has an idea where my engine can leak ? Do you think an 8 years old engine can leak by some porous core plugs ? And if yes do you think product like Irontite Ceramic Seal can resolve the problem ?
Thank for your help.

Ian Anderson · Post by **Ian Anderson** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:14 pm

I would guess that the water pump seal leaks slightly under pressure and because by then the water is really hot it evaporates and is thus not seen as a drip.

A mate at work had the same thing on his 3 year old Ford Focus about a month ago - his all checked out with pressure testing but then the engine ran at full temp it leaked past the seal. Confirmed when the seal let go about 2 weeks later!

Ian

softdash3.9 · Post by **softdash3.9** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:52 pm

My Range Rover started out like that, just used a little water, and not putting it on the floor i.e. no leaks.

Engine lasted @ 2 years in that condition.

Turned out it was a porous block in the end

Don't want to be the bearer of bad news but sound so similar to my engine

it eventually over heated

What was the block pressure tested to? mine was pressured upto 120psi (bare block) and would loose pressure but hold 80psi and not go any lower

i.e. if your test pressure is below this it might not tell you anything

Are any of the spark plugs a different colour? my defective cylinder was No3, any can fail but No3 & 5 are the most common

If a coreplug fails you can see it (unless it is the 2 at the back) they can also look grotty on the outside

See my post on the old forum.

Hope I'm wrong

jrv8 · Post by **jrv8** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:18 pm

Hi,
If your expansion bottle has an overflow pipe, connect it up to a container and see if the water is being pushed out of the system via the cap.

If it is , it's due to excessive pressure in the cooling system and can be caused by the start of a porous block problem, or if you're very lucky a slight blow on a head gasket.

I've seen quite a few of the 3.9 and 4.0 engines go this way , especially if they're on LPG. (engines run hotter & leaner on gas)

Jim

racer · Post by **racer** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:53 pm

Wotland wrote:Hi All,
Someone has an idea where my engine can leak ?

Sure many places. Most requiring a minor fix and others a bit more.

Need some more info though. Have to eliminate things to find the answer.

Please look at the REAR of the engine at the valley gasket area. Is it wet?
Next, if it is not..can you please take the compression of your 8 cylinders? Can you also look at your oil level.

racer

Wotland · Post by **Wotland** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:45 pm

Hi All,
Thank you for your advice.

I have already checked spark plugs and are ok.
About pressure tested, according my local garageman is ok.

I have already tested the landy during 2 hours on motorway (+/- 120km/H-130km/h all time) and no overheating. No overpressure in hoses.

Heater matrix

k
radiator

k
hoses

k

I have looked the core plugs and seem ok.

According to Dess Hammill book, water pump on gems engine fails around 100.000km... Maybe my 4.0 leaks by water pump.

I will try to connect my expansion bottle to a container and see if the water is being pushed out of the system via the cap.

Thank for your help.

GreenV8S · Post by **GreenV8S** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:32 pm

I'd suggest a CO test of the coolant, and run hot and cold cooling system pressure tests.

racer · Post by **racer** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:55 am

GreenV8S wrote:I'd suggest a CO test of the coolant, and run hot and cold cooling system pressure tests.

Naw..so far it looks like a bum rad cap.

still waiting for a compression test

racer

Boosted LS1 · Post by **Boosted LS1** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:01 pm

If the rad cap was removed for the pressure test it should be changed as it's not been tested.

Boosted.

Wotland · Post by **Wotland** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:40 pm

I have connected my expansion bottle to a container.

The water is being pushed out of the system via the cap.

Most strange I have no over pressure in hoses.

It seems me the hoses are limp. Like is there is any pressure in block

.

This saturday, we will check engine pressure again and make an C0 test.

I have forbidden to say in my first post, no white smoke by exhaust.

Do you think that a bum expansion bottle cap can be the cause of problem ? If It is always "open"

ian.stewart · Post by **ian.stewart** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:14 pm

One thing that has not been asked, if you do not top up the water after a week does the water level conuinue to fall, it may be the system finding its own level, I know if i top up my rad after a day the next day the water level is back to where it was previously, and if i leave it for a month, it still is at the same position.
Ian

softdash3.9 · Post by **softdash3.9** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:30 pm

If your cap is similar to my RR it should release pressure above 15psi / 1 bar.

When the engine has ran for a while, after a few km's and is hot, release the pressure from the cap, if pressure is released quickly without gurgling/bubbling, I would hope the head/block is OK.

If gurgling/bubbles take a while longer to disperse air is in the block.

At the later stages before I had new liners fitted, if I left the system pressurised, you could hear the gurgling/bubbling for several minutes after turning the engine off

At least a CO test will confirm if head gasket or worse is the problem or not, hope luck is on your side

Post by **katanaman** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:51 pm

change the cap as a matter of course but carry out a CO test for sure.

racer · Post by **racer** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:16 pm

Wotland wrote: Do you think that a bum expansion bottle cap can be the cause of problem ? If It is always "open"

Of course, it is the most likely thing at the moment. Though I am one who absolutely prefers a bit more information before musing about a diagnosis, all the symptoms you relate match those of a deteriorated pressure (rad) cap...a VERY ordinary and common problem that can be fixed/tested with a £3 purchase.

The dynamics are simple. The manufacturer chooses an expansion (or recovery) tank by calculating how much the coolant will expand assuming
1. a set amount of coolant
2. the heat range of the engine
3. the pressure of the system, fixed by the rad cap

As the rad cap goes, the system pressure drops and more coolant flows out into the expansion tank than the manufacturer ever planned for. The expansion tank is too small for the extra coolant so it flows out onto the ground throhgbnt the escape hose.

This process continues each time you drive until you reach a new coolant level consistent with the lower-than-recommended pressure the bum cap is producing and the size of the expansion tank.

The difference between normal coolant quantity and the new coolant quantity (aka loss of coolant) will vary depending on how bad the cap is. I have seen the new level at 1-3 liters less with a bad cap. Every time you refill it, it will go toss that out after a bit of driving and suck air back in. Eventually, the car overheats and the RAC guy comes and puts a new rad cap on.

racer

Wotland · Post by **Wotland** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:15 pm

HI All,

Excellent news

. This saturday the engine has been checked, co tested, etc.... and it was the expansion bottle cap.

Thank you all for your help and advices.

The V8 Owners Forum -

My RV8 drinks water but where ?

My RV8 drinks water but where ?

Re: My RV8 drinks water but where ?