EDIS timing map on stock rover v8 4.6 with 4.2 cam

[95nas]

I have googled to nauseum and never came across your findings, thank you. I will try and remap sometime in the next week if health and time allows.
viewtopic.php?t=15725 I wish the table on this post was visible, I cannot see it. from description seems promising.

Thanks again.

[SuperV8]

actual 4.6.jpg Stevie, what i posted was a typed copy of the actual chart map this is what I see on the pc when I plug in and load, yes advance rpm and other relevant data is seen as well. load is left rpm is top and full load and or WOT I avoid them due to engine stress

I found my timing mark on my crank pulley way out - so if I checked with a strobe light on number 1 plug lead - the mark on the pulley was incorrect - meaning my timing was also out.

To double check I made a piston stop tool out of an old spark plug and a cap head bolt.
Brake the porcelain on the spark plug, drill it out and bolt in the cap head bolt. Screw this in spark plug number one hole.
Turn the engine over by hand and when it hits the stop, mark your crank pulley at the pointer. Now turn the engine over the other way and mark the pulley again.
The centre of these two marks is your exact TDC.
I also measured 10 degrees and marked that point on the crank pulley.
Fix EDIS to 10 deg timing and check your timing is bang on the 10 deg mark.

[stevieturbo]

I have googled to nauseum and never came across your findings, thank you. I will try and remap sometime in the next week if health and time allows.
viewtopic.php?t=15725 I wish the table on this post was visible, I cannot see it. from description seems promising.

Thanks again.

You don't really need a full table.

Full load say 3k+ do 32deg.

Idle and around that say 10-15deg.

Ramping off idle, lower rpm, driving, say 15-25 deg

And generally interpolate in between.

At low load, cruise, with decent intake manifold vacuum, 50, 60, 70mph, see where you are, these sites can be higher, 30, 35 maybe 40 deg.

[garrycol]

I just googled Land rover V8 ignition curve - and all results show the max advance is between 30 and 35 degrees and that kicks in at about 3000rpm and stays there as revs increase.

[95nas]

allright gentleman, thanks for your contribution and input.

I had some time to spend and weather was acceptable 50 deg F with light breeze. that being said I plugged the lap top to the vehicle and changed a few numbers around.
the idle column was changed from 500 to 700 rpm, it made the idle much happier, I never realized i had an issue with it until it became smoother with the change.
all other columns were changed by about 800 rpm which placed my power band very tight with in the timing table. 6500 rpm was not a number on my rpm gauge on dash so it was moved to 6000 rpm.
the timing advance was reduced and adjusted from 1000 rpm to full rpm. road test revealed an initial cloud of black smoke which eventually cleared and continuous power right away from idle to last gear change, speeds up very fast and maintains a great power curve with better fuel consumption, a 60 mile roundtrip road test did not even move the fuel gauge from full mark. eventually rain forced me indoors so I have quit for now, with positive results. this is what I have now

[scudderfish]

Excellent news

[stevieturbo]

still potentially seems a lot

I would also set the 2nd column where your idle speed is, so you have another column below it, which you can use to bump idle timing a little to increase torque if idle or rpm falls lower.

And no need for WOT at lower rpm's to have as much timing as that. And equally WOT at higher loads may still be a little high, although that's very engine/fuel dependent.

As they are not a high revving engine, you could have your upper columns stop around 4-5000rpm, as timing isn't going to be any different up there anyway, and give yourself more spread/resolution where you spend more time, around idle, off idle, low rpm
Just as a dizzy that will be all in by 3000rpm....will you really need different values over 4000rpm ? I would say unlikely in this scenario

And again, work out your low throttle cruise areas, high vacuum and bump these up, I'm sure they'd be perfectly happy low 40's

[95nas]

on a related note, I was looking thru the install cd and maps, found that GM big block map is a good match for rover v8, versus rover v8 map, aside from a high redline of over 7k rpm and max advance of 52 deg at high rpm.
quite curios and interesting.

Stevie, thanks. let me review your post and visit your suggestion, if I understand correctly draw another column between 700 and 1000 with lower timing before 22 deg.?, remove the 5,000 plus rpm and lower the 38 deg?

[stevieturbo]

on a related note, I was looking thru the install cd and maps, found that GM big block map is a good match for rover v8, versus rover v8 map, aside from a high redline of over 7k rpm and max advance of 52 deg at high rpm.
quite curios and interesting.

Stevie, thanks. let me review your post and visit your suggestion, if I understand correctly draw another column between 700 and 1000 with lower timing before 22 deg.?, remove the 5,000 plus rpm and lower the 38 deg?

I would not make too many comparisons with a big block. Although general trends will be similar, if not actual numbers

I'm saying use your second column specifically at your chosen idle speed, or close to it.
Then in column one, say 2-300rpm less, run higher timing so if idle/rpm falls into this area, timing will help it recover. Obviously how much is trial and error.

And bias your columns more between say 1000-3500rpm, then say the last two at 3500, 4500 or something. Your timing thereafter isn't likely to change in an application like this anyway

When most notes are saying max timing may be around 32-35deg, it seems sensible to start in that range for max timing at high load/rpm

[95nas]

Stevie, if I understand correctly this is what it may need
700 rpm 10 deg
1000rpm 15 deg
1400 rpm 20 deg
2k becomes 1800 @ 25 deg
2.4k becomes 2.2 @ 30 deg
3k becomes 2.8 @ 35 deg
3.6k becomes 3.2 @ 37 deg
4.6k becomes 3.6 @ 38 deg
5.6k to 6k max of 39 deg
Please correct as needed, also all timing remains the same regarding load, correct.

[GDCobra]

Only just seen this thread, been off-line for a week or two. Can't remember the detail when I did mine but I'll try and dig out a graphic of my screen output tomorrow, however your timing seems to come in very quickly and go up quite high. I'd expect to see less advance at higher load, I think your initial table looked "upside sown in that respect" and more resolution in the lower RPMs. I don't see a problem continuing the advance increase up to max RPM, nobody could give me a good techincal reason why not when I asked the question but maybe not so high as 42°, particularly at high load.

As others have said make sure of the basics first checking that the timing marks do correspond to the physical position of the piston, there are several reasons why this can be wrong.

[SuperV8]

Stevie, if I understand correctly this is what it may need
700 rpm 10 deg
1000rpm 15 deg
1400 rpm 20 deg
2k becomes 1800 @ 25 deg
2.4k becomes 2.2 @ 30 deg
3k becomes 2.8 @ 35 deg
3.6k becomes 3.2 @ 37 deg
4.6k becomes 3.6 @ 38 deg
5.6k to 6k max of 39 deg
Please correct as needed, also all timing remains the same regarding load, correct.

Load is critical for timing - which this simple list is missing.
Your timing advance on your table is not changing with load - only RPM. You have the same timing at 10% & 100% load.
100% is WOT (wide open throttle) this is were you should limit advance to 32 or so at 2800-3000rpm.

As I mentioned previously unless you have confirmed your base timing is correct - all these numbers are meaningless
- so you need to confirm a fixed 10degres EDIS timing is exactly equal to 10 degrees engine timing? Trigger offset:
https://wiki.autosportlabs.com/MJLJ_V4_Operation_Guide

Why are you using TPS - MAP is easier.
https://wiki.autosportlabs.com/Choosing ... MAP_or_TPS

Have a read of these:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/MS_ ... m#sparkmap

[95nas]

Super, Stevie. thanks for the suggestion

I am in the US about an hr west of Washington DC, older land rovers specially non defenders are uncommon, which is where I come in with my classic.
seems I am one of the few in the us running a DIS conversion, the few guys with whom I have spoken at club meets, are running distributors.

when I ordered the Megajolt, I asked a few questions but never about map or tps, thus when ordered I received TPS type MJ box. I did have a bit of difficulty during initial install, because of miswiring the TPS to the MJ box. once corrected all else fell in place, here is a link to my past woes. viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15719

being it is an american based product, I do not know of it having been retrofitted on a popular manner as it seem to be the case in the UK. this last statement places me at a disadvantage with over all support, basically I am on my own. being a land rover, tunners around here decline to work on it so my rolling dynamometer is a road test.
I have read the first 2 articles SuperV8 suggested, they were included in the install CD, the link to MS... is an eye opener thou lots of excellent info
seems I am very close to optimizing this tune with a little bit of assistance and enlighten.
thanks for all your assistance, and please advise on where in the map to make changes, at what load levels and amount of optimum timing suggested.

[SuperV8]

Super, Stevie. thanks for the suggestion

I am in the US about an hr west of Washington DC, older land rovers specially non defenders are uncommon, which is where I come in with my classic.
seems I am one of the few in the us running a DIS conversion, the few guys with whom I have spoken at club meets, are running distributors.

when I ordered the Megajolt, I asked a few questions but never about map or tps, thus when ordered I received TPS type MJ box. I did have a bit of difficulty during initial install, because of miswiring the TPS to the MJ box. once corrected all else fell in place, here is a link to my past woes. viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15719

being it is an american based product, I do not know of it having been retrofitted on a popular manner as it seem to be the case in the UK. this last statement places me at a disadvantage with over all support, basically I am on my own. being a land rover, tunners around here decline to work on it so my rolling dynamometer is a road test.
I have read the first 2 articles SuperV8 suggested, they were included in the install CD, the link to MS... is an eye opener thou lots of excellent info
seems I am very close to optimizing this tune with a little bit of assistance and enlighten.
thanks for all your assistance, and please advise on where in the map to make changes, at what load levels and amount of optimum timing suggested.

Have you checked your crank pulley 0 deg mark lines up with your pointer when at piston 1 TDC? (Piston stop method)

This is the first thing I would check. From experience mine was 10 deg out - and this will mean all your advance table is out.

Then you need to set your MJ to a fixed to 10 deg advance and make sure this lines up with your 10 deg point on your crank pulley.

[95nas]

Have you checked your crank pulley 0 deg mark lines up with your pointer when at piston 1 TDC? (Piston stop method)

This is the first thing I would check. From experience mine was 10 deg out - and this will mean all your advance table is out.

Then you need to set your MJ to a fixed to 10 deg advance and make sure this lines up with your 10 deg point on your crank pulley.
[/quote]

yes I did, I used a dial gauge secured to exhaust manifold and into cylinder 1 to set tdc (same set up I use when setting differentials). the factory markings on harmonic balancer were almost exact (or my math was off), but the trigger wheel had to be adjusted about 1 tooth. I used a deburring drill bit to elongate the holes and make it work.

land rovers on this side of the pond are seen as a status symbol, thus modifications include LS engine conversions, right hand drive and diesel but mainly on older defenders.

modifications such as mine are unheard.

I retired from working on rovers in 2013, since then I have worked on industrial diesel units (16 cylinder cummins), when working on cars I did not deviate from factory specs, and when a custom vehicle needed tuning it was referred to a tuner specialist.

I think I have forgotten more about rovers than I ever learned