EDIS timing map on stock rover v8 4.6 with 4.2 cam

[95nas]

Good day to all.

I am in the east coast of the US, I own a 95 classic LWB auto box, engine has been upgraded to a 4.6 and it runs a normal 4.2 cam shaft. bosh 3 electrode spark plugs with a .060 electrode gap.
fuel system is the factory 14 cux, ignition system is trigger wheels megajolt JR lite EDIS 8 running hotter performance coils, custom built for a rover bosh v8 and 10mm leads from davis unified ignition, also know as sultans of spark or S.O.S coils.

the spark map provided by trigger wheels was adequate and marginal but I think it was meant as a generic base for a 3.5 or 3.9 rover v8 and not stroked like the 4.2 or 4.6
it made my engine hard to start, sluggish and over all under perform while using a lot of fuel.
I decided to tweak the map a little and it has improved, but leaves a lot of room for improvement. fuel economy is much better, cruising speed of 65 to 85 mph is sustained with light throttle, passing at WOT is non existent as engine falls flat, at WOT or when using A/C the pistons ping and I have to back out of throttle.
I do not have the possibility of hiring a dyno tech to dial in, although it may be a good suggestion.
I have posted on other forums but have not received encouraging responses.
could someone please suggest proper changes to achieve my goal of good power, fuel economy, performance while saving my engine from destruction. not sure if I am able to load table during post but here we go.

above all thank you, before hand

[95nas]

ERROR
Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached.

I get this error message when loading a copy of my current map for review.

[Ian Anderson]

Welcome to the V8 forum.

First thing I would do is a reset on the 14cux, lots of fuel and not wanting to rev sounds like limp home mode.

Easy to reset just remove the power / disconnect battery for 30 secs and then reattach.

And pinking under load sounds like your ignition is too far adcanced, take out a degree or two.

Ian

[95nas]

Ian thank you for the suggestion, engine management has been reset.
below is the table I could not load, the 42 deg of advance i just there to fill a space, I never expect to see my engine reaching full load or 6500 RPM
for any amount of time.
please advise on corrections to be made. currently it is drivable, but it could use improvement.


RPM 500 1000 1400 2000 2400 3300 4000 4600 5600 6500
timing advance degrees

load%
10 10 27 39 39 39 38 38 38 37 42
20 10 27 39 39 38 38 38 39 37 42
30 12 27 39 39 38 38 38 39 37 42
40 12 27 38 39 38 38 38 39 37 42
50 12 27 38 39 38 38 38 39 37 42
60 12 27 38 39 38 38 38 39 37 42
70 12 27 38 39 38 38 38 39 37 42
80 12 27 38 39 38 38 38 39 37 42
90 12 27 38 42 42 42 42 42 42 42
100 12 27 38 42 42 42 42 42 42 42

[95nas]

RPM 500 1000 1400 2000 2400 3300 4000 4600 5600 6500
timing advance degrees

load%
10 10 27 39 39 39 38 38 38 37 42
20 10 27 39 39 38 38 38 39 37 42
30 12 27 39 39 38 38 38 39 37 42
40 12 27 38 39 38 38 38 39 37 42
50 12 27 38 39 38 38 38 39 37 42
60 12 27 38 39 38 38 38 39 37 42
70 12 27 38 39 38 38 38 39 37 42
80 12 27 38 39 38 38 38 39 37 42
90 12 27 38 42 42 42 42 42 42 42
100 12 27 38 42 42 42 42 42 42 42

[95nas]

i hope it is easy to understand, it looked good when typed but once submitted it becomes a jumbled mess. sorry

[scudderfish]

ERROR
Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached.

I get this error message when loading a copy of my current map for review.

That should be fixed now.

[stevieturbo]

Firstly...have you confirmed timing you expect, is confirmed at the plug ?

And a table like that with no terms of reference, means little. What to you is your "load" ?

And why would you say it should never see full load ? Of course any engine should at some point.

[95nas]

Stevie, what i posted was a typed copy of the actual chart map this is what I see on the pc when I plug in and load, yes advance rpm and other relevant data is seen as well. load is left rpm is top and full load and or WOT I avoid them due to engine stress

[stevieturbo]

I know what the table is

And I asked a specific question....what is "your" load ?

throttle ? MAP ? other ?

Is it calibrated correctly ? And again I ask have you confirmed the timing you expect, is what is seen at the spark plug/cylinder ?

Full throttle will not stress the engine.

Although incorrect timing could. Basics first.

[Ian Anderson]

Huge jump from 1000 to 1400

Also regularly hear max 36 degrees all in, But I am not and have not ever done electronic ignition.

Ian

[95nas]

I miss understood the question, sorry it is throttle. yes I have calibrated a few times just for good measure, yes what I have on table is what engine sees and feeds back, all seems normal when driven at or about 30% load in city, once I merge in to highway traffic I need to keep light to medium throttle,(60% load). if I use heavy throttle, engine pings and bogs, consumes large amount of fuel and takes time to speed from 40 to 70 mph.
I cannot use air conditioning as it makes engine ping above 2000 rpm

when cruising on highway and attempting to pass, I must do so very carefully to avoid engine bog, I can maintain 70 to 85 MPH but at expense of heavy fuel consumption of around 7 miles per gallon. anything over 3200 rpm is useless

in retrospect 10 yrs ago a took a memorable 600 mile one way trip traveling at 80 to 90 mph and I used about 35 gallons of fuel, it had a well performing distributor. I would like to see those numbers again. the distributor finally failed and it led to current EDIS situation.

[stevieturbo]

Then simply.....what timing did the dizzy have ?

and start from there with the table.

I would probably prefer a MAP based setup, as at least then you can better account for engine load, which isn't quite the same as throttle openings.

And as others have said, 42deg at full load sounds rather high. And quite clearly, if you are hearing pinking etc....it is too high ( or too lean, or a combination of both )

So reduce timing in those areas.

[95nas]

the dizzy had a base timing of 10deg btdc, from factory recommended 8 deg btdc @ idle. I don't ever remember having checked the centrifugal advance thus can't say the max advance at "X" RPM.
the engine has been there since 2008 but it has seen about 40,000 miles only, the distributor having been in the original 4.2, had about 260,000 miles
It had physically worn out in it's shaft, thus it would leave me stranded at any given time.
replacement meant the same old technology, which led to deciding factor of EDIS.
when I purchased EDIS, I was not given a MAP option. it was not until the install reading instructions I realized I could have requested MAP or TPS or both types of load.
at that time the vehicle had been in the repair garage for a project, thus it took another 2 yrs before the EDIS install took place.

[stevieturbo]

A quick google

http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?6,70737

https://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewth ... ?tid=66672

viewtopic.php?t=15725

https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/4261-rov ... ta-needed/


A lot are seeming to indicate around 32deg for max advance. This would be a WOT scenario and I would guess higher than say 3000rpm.

High vacuum areas, part throttle/low load could safely be higher though.

Your 42's at full throttle just seem very very high, likewise other numbers at large throttle openings