Igntion map

adamnreeves · Post by **adamnreeves** » Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:59 pm

I've been using this ignition map for a while now. It was tweaked by the tuner when my car was rolling road tuned. However since then I have been reading that maximum advance of my RV8 4.6 should be between 28-30degrees however I do not know if this statement was inclusive of the 10 degrees static advance, if it was then the map below would make more sense as this is total advance. Comments?

bobtail84 · Post by **bobtail84** » Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:39 pm

Adam, this is an early one for my 3.9

I'm sure a grown up will be along to give the right answer BUT IIRC the more CC's the less the advance so I don't think that map is too bad. Maybe a little tweeking in the 1st couple of rows but each engine has it's own foibles. The map is including the 10deg.

Jeff

adamnreeves · Post by **adamnreeves** » Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:14 pm

Jeff, thanks for the reply. Yes the more CCs the lower advance max power is attained. So the max advance of 38 in my map is equivalent to 28 with dizzy-up. Ok that makes me a lot happier now knowing that.

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:04 am

Hi
as a general rule for the same basic engine with the same heads same CR but just more CCs at max power more CCs may require slightly less advance (2-3 degrees max) just because the charge is more turbulant and there is a better surface area to volume ratio, at very light loads however it will probably need a little more advance as for a given power output it is running on a smaller amount of fuel air mixture which is more diluted by exhaust gasses.
Best regards
Mike
PS acording to my wife I am definatly NOT a grown up

daxtojeiro · Post by **daxtojeiro** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:50 pm

Neither of those maps look any good to be honest. The second one is simply the same as a distributor's curve, which is fine but doesn't really utilise the 3D facility of a mappable setup. The first is way down on advance.

Your values will represent the Total advance, not advance plus static, and these should be around 30deg at WOT. You can have a lot more advance at cruise in order to lean out the mixture for efficiency. Have a look at the following 2, one is TPS based, the other has is MAP based:

Im not a grown up though

JSF55 · Post by **JSF55** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:13 pm

Being daft, which is which ?

adamnreeves · Post by **adamnreeves** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:56 pm

Just looking at my idle position on these maps which is 800RPM and 45Kpa the advance is higher than mine which is 9degrees. To be honest the most I have tried is 12degrees, is 14 okay?

Phil, Looking at the WOT on my map, see what you mean, your map is much better looks like I can get more power, I am excited now

Maybe I should be stating the tune of my engine:

New Rover V8 cross bolted block supplied by RPI international (38A). 4.6 V8 prefix (XM46D).
V8 Developments Stage III cylinder heads (V8D249 28.5CC) 1.63" Inlet valve, 1.4" exhaust valve
Piper 285i rally road camshaft , maximum lift of 12.11mm (0.477")
Rhoads Hydraulic Lifters
Real steel heavy duty valve springs
Crane heavy duty chrome moly adjustable pushrods
ACT carbon fibre plenum chamber incorporating Jaguar XJ6 4.0 72mm throttle body.
Bosch 231cc/min injectors
Engine has been dyno'd tuned and produced 281BHP and 300 lb-ft torque

However since this tuning session I have changed the HT leads for high performance ones. Upgraded from MS1 to MS2 and discovered that my vacuum pipe to the fuel pressure regulator had collapsed so changed that but I am not sure when this happened, during the tuning or after! The engine has also done 1000 miles since.

adamnreeves · Post by **adamnreeves** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:12 pm

I think the first one is TPS based and the second one Load based looking at the values. Phil?

JSF55 wrote:Being daft, which is which ?

adamnreeves · Post by **adamnreeves** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:38 pm

Phil. Just gone to input the ADV map into tunerstudio, I do not have a 16x16 map I have 12x12 don't understand why. I am running the latest tunerstudio and msextra firmware.

daxtojeiro · Post by **daxtojeiro** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:48 pm

Hi there,
the 12x12 is Alpha_N (TPS) and the 16x16 is from my MS3 (SD)

I can soon email you a VEX file to import straight into your map, obviously the fueling will need tweaking, but your map definetly needs changing,
Phil

adamnreeves · Post by **adamnreeves** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:01 pm

My fuelling needs tweaking anyway, planning on auto-tuning, think these targets are good, I've change the idle AFR to 13.5 as this is what my setup seems to like:

You probably got my email address but just in case, adam.reeves68(at)gmail(dot)com

Thanks really appreciated.

daxtojeiro wrote:Hi there,
the 12x12 is Alpha_N (TPS) and the 16x16 is from my MS3 (SD)

I can soon email you a VEX file to import straight into your map, obviously the fueling will need tweaking, but your map definetly needs changing,
Phil

bobtail84 · Post by **bobtail84** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:57 pm

This is for Phil....

The TPS spark map is very interesting.. I think I need some help in tuning my maps. If I burn the above map to my MS1 V3 29y, which is one of yours, what should I look out for?

Jeff

daxtojeiro · Post by **daxtojeiro** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:18 am

I have to say Ive seen a lot of poor maps done by tuners lately, this is one reason I always recommend V8D as they do know what they are doing

The idle area will probably increase in speed with that map, and fueling will change a little, the main thing is it should allow you to lean the crusie out. A lot of the cruise advance depends on the cam you have, most of the shunting can be tuned out with the advance around the cruise area to,
Phil

Post by **scudderfish** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:04 pm

daxtojeiro wrote:I have to say Ive seen a lot of poor maps done by tuners lately, this is one reason I always recommend V8D as they do know what they are doing

The idle area will probably increase in speed with that map, and fueling will change a little, the main thing is it should allow you to lean the crusie out. A lot of the cruise advance depends on the cam you have, most of the shunting can be tuned out with the advance around the cruise area to,
Phil

Sorry to be dumb, but who are V8D?

Regards,
Dave

adamnreeves · Post by **adamnreeves** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:38 pm

scudderfish wrote:
daxtojeiro wrote:I have to say Ive seen a lot of poor maps done by tuners lately, this is one reason I always recommend V8D as they do know what they are doing

The idle area will probably increase in speed with that map, and fueling will change a little, the main thing is it should allow you to lean the crusie out. A lot of the cruise advance depends on the cam you have, most of the shunting can be tuned out with the advance around the cruise area to,
Phil
Sorry to be dumb, but who are V8D?

Regards,
Dave

Dave, that is sacrilege! V8D or V8 Developments one of the most experienced Rover V8 Engine builders in the UK if not anywhere, there are the engine builders builder.

http://www.v8developments.co.uk/