Salisbury 4HA == Dana spicer D44 ???

Lucke · Post by **Lucke** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:36 pm

Hi!

Does the Scimitar Salisbury 4HA rear axle contain a Dana Spicer D44 differential??

According to information on this page, it does, if Scimitar have the same differential as Jaguar MKII which I've learned earlier:
http://www.ring-pinion.com/DiffList.asp ... &Side=Rear

The Dana Spicer D44 housing appears in some various models:
http://www.ring-pinion.com/DiffList.asp ... ana+Spicer

When looking at the various models of the D44 housing, I suppose that all of them contains the same type of ring and pinion etc. you will see that this differential is fitted on a lot of high performance cars like Corvette and Dodge Viper etc.
Looks like the engineers at Reliant choosed an overkill dimension of rear axle. But that's good for the V8-conversion fans (like me)!! In a light car as the SE5 it looks like the rear axle will be unbreakable...

Can anyone confirm if this information is correct?

Is the differential parts fully compatible between the US Dana 44 axles and the Salisbury axle? Then there are lots of aftermarket LSD's and spools to choose between at very reasonable prices.

I have also found that Quaife sells halfshafts with splined ends for the Salisbury axles.
http://www.quaifeamerica.com/driveline/driveline.htm

I had to remove both my halfshafts to fit the disc brakes, it's totally insane that hubs can stick so hard on an axle. I tried with a big puller and lots of acetylene, but I had to remove the complete shafts and put them into a press.
(Yes Marki, I've read about the problem on your webpage. But I tried with a puller anyway. After all I can just say that your statement about forgetting to pull them of is just correct!!

)

Since some previous owner has destroyed the threading on one of the halfshafts I don't know how to put it together again. Shall I bring another Salisbury halfshaft or buy a splined halfshaft kit from Quaife??? One alternative can be restoring the threading on the axle, the original threading is 7/8" (approx 22mm). New M20x1,5 threadings can be an alternative.
Is there any other alternatives??

Is the standard halfshafts strong enough for a tuned Ford 302?

Disc brakes!
I think that I have found an easy way to fit disc brakes on a Scimitar rear axle, Volvo S40 discs and Audi calipers is the recipe.
But, the Salisbury 4HA axles seems to be fitted on other cars than Scimitars so I just wonder if there already exists a car with Salisbury 4HA fitted with rear discs?? Should be nice to know if I unnecessarily have made the disc conversion ...

ian.stewart · Post by **ian.stewart** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:11 pm

I have never heard of a similarity to the Dana44, the axle has been about since just after the was and was fitted to the XK120 and the Mk8 jag, discs were firred to the jags when the axle was fitted to the Mk1 jag and Mk2Jag/Daimler, unfortunatly I would be surprised if the Jag as brakes would have a specific bracket fited to them to fit the calliper rather than the Scimitar drums,
Ian

Lucke · Post by **Lucke** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:44 pm

ian.stewart wrote:I have never heard of a similarity to the Dana44, the axle has been about since just after the was and was fitted to the XK120 and the Mk8 jag, discs were firred to the jags when the axle was fitted to the Mk1 jag and Mk2Jag/Daimler, unfortunatly I would be surprised if the Jag as brakes would have a specific bracket fited to them to fit the calliper rather than the Scimitar drums,
Ian

Googling for "jaguar dana 44" returns a lot of hits, this for example:

http://www.precisiongear.com/dana44.htm
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/jaguar-irs-67267.html

About brakes: nice to know that I haven't invented the wheel one more time...

Post by **katanaman** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:34 pm

Told you it wasn't worth trying a puller

The only part of the axle that I know of similar to the jag is the centre casting. The tubes, bearing holders, half shafts and hubs are different. In fact if you look at the casting compared to the jag IRS they are very very similar. The hubs are pure Triumph in the way it all goes together in they might even be Triumph, the front suspension parts are. Half shafts are probably made for the scim given the cross between diff and Triumph plus the variation in length. What they can ultimately take I have no idea but they are strong and live with the 302 fine. Course it depends what you mean by tuned but I know of a few scim's with 400bhp or a smidge more living on 4ha axles.
I would doubt there is an axle ready made to take disk brakes. There is a lot of interest in the owners club regarding rear disks but they are all conversions, usually with Sierra or Granada parts. Course they could all have missed something but if they have then I would stick my neck out and say, if there is one ready done then it must be pretty rare. Personally I never really looked into converting the rear brakes as I never considered them to need upgrading. This could easy change when I finally get it all together and on the road but for now I am happy to stick with the drums.

russell_ram · Post by **russell_ram** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:52 pm

Lucke,

Dana 44 and GKn 4HA are NOT the same to the best of my knowledge. As Marki says though, the crownwheel, diff carrier, pinion, bearings etc in a Scimitar 4HA are identical to the GKN unit found in Jag IRS and so all the Jag ratios and powerlok etc are available (and easy) to fit straight into the Scimitar case - mine is fitted with a 4.11 Powerlok for example.

The confusion arises, when you search on Jag and Dana 44, because for a few years Jag fitted a Dana44 based unit to XJS as an alternate unit to the GKN4H based unit (at the same time depending on what they had in stock). They are totally different in all respects EXCEPT that they both have exactly the same mount and suspension bolt pick-up points. In a Jag they are therefore interchangable as a complete unit, but no parts are the same on either unit.

My understanding is that none of the Dana parts will fit a Scimitar axle.

HTH

Russ

Lucke · Post by **Lucke** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:59 am

russell_ram wrote: My understanding is that none of the Dana parts will fit a Scimitar axle.

I do not doubt your knowledge but I still don't know what I should believe, many articles on the web claims that at least the ring and pinion are the same in the Jaguar and DANA 44 axles.

http://www.jags.org/TechInfo/2001/04Apr ... ervice.htm

IF the parts from Dana 44 would fit, then I should be happy since the range of aftermarket parts from US is very big and the prices is often very comfortable...

The Dana and Salisbury companies seems to have strong relations to each other anyway.

Still confused

Post by **katanaman** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:36 pm

ring and pinion is one thing but that's not going to get the Dana diff to fit. The bearings and widths could be completely different.

JSF55 · Post by **JSF55** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:49 pm

I found this on the web looking for info on the diffrent types of casing jaguar used, he rebuilt his using the ring and pinion and some of the bearing parts could be used, read the story it tells it better !! john

http://mckennasgarage.com/xke/jag32.htm

Lucke · Post by **Lucke** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:46 pm

katanaman wrote:ring and pinion is one thing but that's not going to get the Dana diff to fit. The bearings and widths could be completely different.

Yes that's right... Ring and pinion seem's to be possible to replace with Dana parts, but still we don't know if the other differential parts are compatible..

That would be very nice to know, cause then there are lots of various diff locks to choose between:
http://www.ring-pinion.com/PartsList.as ... fferential

Probably at very reasonable prices (as usual for spare parts in US)...

I will try to contact some of the kitcar suppliers in US to get the answer, I saw that some of them offered Jaguar IRS axles for Cobras etc. They might know exactly what you need to fit a Dana diff lock, IF it's possible at all.

Lucke · Post by **Lucke** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:20 pm

ian.stewart wrote: I would be surprised if the Jag as brakes would have a specific bracket fited to them to fit the calliper rather than the Scimitar drums,
Ian

I borrowed a partslist for Jaguar MKII today.
Just to compare the Jag axle with the Scim axle. Very interesting!!

The outer ends of the Jaguar rear axle seems to be identical in design as the Scimtar axle in many points.
The bearings, the boltpatterns for the bearing retainer, the hubs (except for 5 studs instead of 4!!) and instead of the drum brake mounting plate there is a bracket for the caliper!!
The hubs are also mounted on a conical driveshaft..

(don't forget the hydraulic press!!

)

The only thing I can't see on the pictures is if the parts are different in size, can't imagine why they should be... Then it looks like the Jaguar parts would fit.

I will use my Audi calipers and Volvo discs at the first issue of my project. But 5-stud Jag MKII hubs, discs and Jaguar calipers can be a plan for the future...

Does anybody know how to get 5-stud front hubs?? I saw a V8 Scimitar on Ebay with this...
He also had 5-studs in the rear, but this was cause he had a shortened Volvo rear axle. I don't understand his choice of rear axle, the Volvo axle is smaller than the Scimitar axle... Ring gear 7,2" vs 8,5".

barneybrendan · Post by **barneybrendan** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:11 pm

sorry to jump in here on the scimitar front what models have the 4ha.im getting conflict on it se5a ive been told but a guy who is selling one says hes sure its a 7ha on them.

Lucke · Post by **Lucke** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:38 pm

barneybrendan wrote:sorry to jump in here on the scimitar front what models have the 4ha.im getting conflict on it se5a ive been told but a guy who is selling one says hes sure its a 7ha on them.

Haven't heard about it before but I found an explanation of the difference between 4HA and 7HA here:

http://www.scimitar-parts.co.uk/html/ar ... rt_11.html

Post by **katanaman** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:54 pm

7ha is on the coupe and some SE5's 4ha is on the SE5a onward including the SE6 although the 6 axle is too wide for a 5. A lot of SE5's now have the 4ha as its a straight swap and a much better axle.

barneybrendan · Post by **barneybrendan** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:28 am

is there a way of telling the difference by visualy looking under the car.the guy said its definately an se5a though.its cheap at £50 but no good if its the 7ha realy.

Post by **katanaman** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:46 am

Never seen a 7ha so no idea. What I can say is if you go to my site there are a few pictures of the 4ha so if it looks different you will know from that.