The V8 Owners Forum - Forum Index The V8 Owners Forum -
Welcome to the well-known V8 Owners Forum, no matter what you drive if its V8 Powered you'll be made very welcome.
 
 GarageGarage   1/4 Mile Table1/4 Mile Table 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Rear wheel bearing.

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The V8 Owners Forum - Forum Index -> Drivetrain & Transmission Area
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
DaveEFI
Forum Contributor
Forum Contributor


Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 3821
Location: SW London, UK


PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:35 am    Post subject: Rear wheel bearing. Reply with quote

Looking for some info from some of the experienced types on here.
On the SD1 forum, a member removed a halfshaft from his axle. It came out with the outer part of the bearing still in the the axle housing. Ie, the rollers exposed. The outer wasn't difficult to remove from the housing and according to him looked OK. I've stripped a few of these axles, and the halfshaft has always come out with the bearing complete. So wondered exactly what had happened?
_________________
Dave
London SW
Rover SD1 VDP EFI
MegaSquirt2 V3
EDIS8
Tech Edge 2Y
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JSF55
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 970
Location: Swansea

1955 Ford Popular 103e

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wear on the half shaft would allow the bearing to be stuck in the housing, measurement of the half shaft should confirm this. The other possibility is a loose axle housing that's had the bearing changed and some "bearing fit" applied to it, this can cause it to be come stuck

http://www.loctite.co.uk/news-4082_bearing-the-pressure-6232_UKE_HTML.htm
_________________
So thats where it went !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
DaveEFI
Forum Contributor
Forum Contributor


Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 3821
Location: SW London, UK


PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think you misunderstood. The bearing is a ball race. Which is supplied as a complete unit. It is very firmly held in place on the shaft by a collar pressed in place with a force of several tons. The outside of the ball race fits into the main axle housing, and is held in place by a bolted on plate. You remove that plate to remove the halfshaft assembly complete. As far as I can see, the ball race itself contains any sideways movement of the shaft. Ie, sets any end float. So can't understand how an apparently good one can separate.
_________________
Dave
London SW
Rover SD1 VDP EFI
MegaSquirt2 V3
EDIS8
Tech Edge 2Y
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
harvey
Knows His Stuff
Knows His Stuff


Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 396



PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaveEFI wrote:
The bearing is a ball race.


IIRC they are a taper roller bearing, which is far more likely to leave the outer track in the axle housing. I can't see it ever happening with a ball bearing, if it did then the bearing would probably just fall apart.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DaveEFI
Forum Contributor
Forum Contributor


Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 3821
Location: SW London, UK


PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

harvey wrote:
DaveEFI wrote:
The bearing is a ball race.


IIRC they are a taper roller bearing, which is far more likely to leave the outer track in the axle housing. I can't see it ever happening with a ball bearing, if it did then the bearing would probably just fall apart.


Yes- I was trying to keep it simple. The BL manual does show it being a taper bearing.

I've no real idea just such things are constructed. But it obviously has to take at least some thrust in both sideways directions.

The front wheel bearings are a pair of taper bearings, and they come apart if you remove the hub. But easier to understand how they work.
_________________
Dave
London SW
Rover SD1 VDP EFI
MegaSquirt2 V3
EDIS8
Tech Edge 2Y
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
harvey
Knows His Stuff
Knows His Stuff


Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 396



PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it relies on friction between the outer track and the casing to hold the halfshaft in place then I wouldn't want the bearing to split when removing it, if it's held in place by a plate and the backplate I can't see there's a problem, other than getting the outer track out of the casing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DEVONMAN
Top Dog
Top Dog


Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 1346
Location: Croydon UK


PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this particular bearing had seen better days.
_________________
1950 A40 Devon Hotrod with 5.0 twin turbo RV8. (10 things to make you smile)
EDIS8 wasted spark, Holley Injection.
Been as far as the Moon and back in 54 year of driving. Same Car, 5 engine upgrades !!!


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
russell_ram
Getting There
Getting There


Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 219
Location: Midlands


PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaveEFI wrote:
The BL manual does show it being a taper bearing. -
AND - it obviously has to take at least some thrust in both sideways directions. - AND - The front wheel bearings are a pair of taper bearings, and they come apart if you remove the hub. But easier to understand how they work.


If it is a single taper roller (as most beam axles are actually) then you do have a PAIR of tapers to oppose cornering forces in exactly the same way as your front hub assembly example - they are just on opposite ends of the axle. The lateral force that would separate the taper on one side of the car is transferred along the driveshaft through the centre of the diff via a spacer to the one on the other side.

See the first pic here for instance (first one I could find quickly that shows what I mean) : https://sites.google.com/site/morganatica/04-transmission/salisbury-rear-axle-differential.

It shows the taper roller in one hub (that couldn't resist inward forcing in this instance) and the spacer inside the diff which transfers that forcing to the other shaft / side of the axle (which can resist that force 'cause it's bearing is facing the opposite direction).

Hope that makes sense but that's how most beam axles work.
_________________
Rover Powered to 11.63sec @ 128mph.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DEVONMAN
Top Dog
Top Dog


Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 1346
Location: Croydon UK


PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is odd in this case is that the bearing came outwards
without the outer part therefore not resisting outward movement of the shaft. Maybe the bearing was inserted back to front.

Inward movement should be resisted by spacer in the diff and the opposite shaft, and outward movement by the bearing.
_________________
1950 A40 Devon Hotrod with 5.0 twin turbo RV8. (10 things to make you smile)
EDIS8 wasted spark, Holley Injection.
Been as far as the Moon and back in 54 year of driving. Same Car, 5 engine upgrades !!!


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SuperV8
Knows His Stuff
Knows His Stuff


Joined: 07 Jul 2009
Posts: 695
Location: West midlands

2001 Dax Rush

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got a photo?
_________________
Dax Rush 4.6 supercharged V8 MSII
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DaveEFI
Forum Contributor
Forum Contributor


Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 3821
Location: SW London, UK


PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEVONMAN wrote:
What is odd in this case is that the bearing came outwards
without the outer part therefore not resisting outward movement of the shaft. Maybe the bearing was inserted back to front.

Inward movement should be resisted by spacer in the diff and the opposite shaft, and outward movement by the bearing.


I wondered about that - but the pic showed the rollers to be in the same direction as in the BL manual drawing.

it's obvious (to me) there will be more sideways thrust when cornering in one direction - but surely still some when cornering the opposite way?

Thing is that if the bearing itself doesn't contain that 'reverse' thrust, if would be done by the oil seal.
_________________
Dave
London SW
Rover SD1 VDP EFI
MegaSquirt2 V3
EDIS8
Tech Edge 2Y
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DEVONMAN
Top Dog
Top Dog


Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 1346
Location: Croydon UK


PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaveEFI wrote:
DEVONMAN wrote:
What is odd in this case is that the bearing came outwards
without the outer part therefore not resisting outward movement of the shaft. Maybe the bearing was inserted back to front.

Inward movement should be resisted by spacer in the diff and the opposite shaft, and outward movement by the bearing.


I wondered about that - but the pic showed the rollers to be in the same direction as in the BL manual drawing.

it's obvious (to me) there will be more sideways thrust when cornering in one direction - but surely still some when cornering the opposite way?

Thing is that if the bearing itself doesn't contain that 'reverse' thrust, if would be done by the oil seal.


The rollers shown in my SD1 Haynes manual are the opposite way round to the drawing of the Salisbury Axle shown by Russell_Ram. In the case of the Salisbury axle the trust is taken by the bearings in the outward direction and the inward thrust is transmitted to the other side of the axle via the halfshaft and centre spacer.
Maybe Mr HAYNES has got it wrong in his book or the SD1 bearings are special rollers that take thrust in both directions. There is no talk of checking the axial end play in the SD1 book.
_________________
1950 A40 Devon Hotrod with 5.0 twin turbo RV8. (10 things to make you smile)
EDIS8 wasted spark, Holley Injection.
Been as far as the Moon and back in 54 year of driving. Same Car, 5 engine upgrades !!!


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DaveEFI
Forum Contributor
Forum Contributor


Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 3821
Location: SW London, UK


PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've only got the BL manual. Here's the pic from the SD1 site:-


_________________
Dave
London SW
Rover SD1 VDP EFI
MegaSquirt2 V3
EDIS8
Tech Edge 2Y
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The V8 Owners Forum - Forum Index -> Drivetrain & Transmission Area All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure!


Copyright www.v8forum.co.uk 2006. All Rights Reserved,
Forum Disclaimer: Any posts in the V8 Forum are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of the owner, administrators or moderators.