Any reason why I shouldn't use this with distilled water in my SD1 cooling system? I believe it can drop the running temp by a few degrees, lubricates the water pump and is compatible with alloy engines.
As far as I know glycol in normal coolant lowers the freezing point of the coolant (not a problem here as it never gets below 2C in winter) and raises the boiling point, which I don't want to be approaching in the first place.
Specs are AFCO Aluminium race radiator, Ford Falcon V8 (AU model) dual thermo fans, Delta Current Control Variable Speed Fan Controller, Buick 300 water pump and 74C Tridon thermostat.
The engine doesn't overheat but in summer it gets into the low 40sC here and sitting in city traffic with a worked 4.6 can get a bit steamy. And on a non top hatted block anything that staves off overheating is a good thing.
I have an Engine Guardian device fitted that sounds a warning alarm if the temp goes above 95C.
Redline Water Wetter
Moderator: phpBB2 - Administrators
Correct me if wrong, but the stat > engine temp might be 1:1 if the cooling is 100% efficient. Coolant temps do vary though from whatever the stat is?
Anyway, I got some, have used it, may have made a degree or two's difference, hard to be definite. Certainly wasn't a fix for the hot-running car, it needed other mods to sort it.
As it's there on the shelf I tried it in my bike last summer, it can get hot & bothered, didn't make any noticeable difference.
Anyway, I got some, have used it, may have made a degree or two's difference, hard to be definite. Certainly wasn't a fix for the hot-running car, it needed other mods to sort it.
As it's there on the shelf I tried it in my bike last summer, it can get hot & bothered, didn't make any noticeable difference.
Dunno if this is any help, but my standard SD1 EFI ran very hot - the gauge would be around 100 C in slow moving traffic. Until I removed the AC condenser for repair. It then dropped back to the thermostat opening point.
This was with inoperative AC, but the twin fans still worked and would be on most of the time in traffic.
The condenser didn't appear to be blocked in any way other than some corrosion on the fins.
At speed, there was enough airflow to keep things normal.
The other weird thing was the viscous fan coupling never 'locked' when it got hot. Checked on the bench with a hot air gun, it started to lock at approx 90C. So my guess is something odd was happening to the airflow through the rad.
This was with inoperative AC, but the twin fans still worked and would be on most of the time in traffic.
The condenser didn't appear to be blocked in any way other than some corrosion on the fins.
At speed, there was enough airflow to keep things normal.
The other weird thing was the viscous fan coupling never 'locked' when it got hot. Checked on the bench with a hot air gun, it started to lock at approx 90C. So my guess is something odd was happening to the airflow through the rad.
Dave
London SW
Rover SD1 VDP EFI
MegaSquirt2 V3
EDIS8
Tech Edge 2Y
London SW
Rover SD1 VDP EFI
MegaSquirt2 V3
EDIS8
Tech Edge 2Y
I run a 4.6 but with a SD1 front cover. The stat is in the Edelbrock manifold. I run a 74 degree stat, the car runs at 75-80 degrees, the fan is set to kick in at 82.
I believe that it is not possible to change the stat on some of the Rover setups but if you can it would be worth doing.
Some people on the Cobra forum have 'kicked off' stating that this is too cold but they are more familiar with small block Chevvy lumps. I'd rather have a fraction more bore wear than a cracked block!
If you do run the lump quite cool you should check that the oil is still getting hot, 80 min, 90 being better.
All just my humble!
I believe that it is not possible to change the stat on some of the Rover setups but if you can it would be worth doing.
Some people on the Cobra forum have 'kicked off' stating that this is too cold but they are more familiar with small block Chevvy lumps. I'd rather have a fraction more bore wear than a cracked block!
If you do run the lump quite cool you should check that the oil is still getting hot, 80 min, 90 being better.
All just my humble!
-
ian.stewart
- Forum Contributor
- Posts: 2419
- Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:59 pm
- Location: Far Far south, any further south and my feet are wet
IIRC I run a 88 stat in my RV8, and I also run it with redline water wetter, its not seemed to give any problems with antifreeze either, [for definitive answers have a look on their web site,] it seems to work as I have been stuck in some really bad traffic on the M25 with ambient temps in the 90s, its got hot but never boiled up.
Im also fairly sure the stuff sold as water wetter is the same basic stuff sold for dishwashers as rinse aid, but I have never had the balls to try it as a substitute
Im also fairly sure the stuff sold as water wetter is the same basic stuff sold for dishwashers as rinse aid, but I have never had the balls to try it as a substitute
THE SMOKING GNU
12.604 with an old boiler of a RV8 and no gas
WHY are there so many IANS on this site???????
12.604 with an old boiler of a RV8 and no gas
WHY are there so many IANS on this site???????
Its supposed to reduce the surface tension of the water isnt it?
Perry Stephenson
MGB GT + Rover V8
9.62 @ 137.37mph
Now looking for 8 seconds with a SBC engine
My engine was running a little warmer than I would have liked in the first part of the year so I used a Zirgo Ultra Cool WW and bunged that in to see if it would help.
The airflow into the rad area of my engine bay is limited and I was very sceptical about Zirgo's claim of 20+degrees of temp reduction once fitted.
Now there is no way that my temperature readings have dropped that much but I have seen a difference on my guage.
The engine runs spot on now whatever the weather.
Reading the other posts about this you are not going to cause any problems by pouring a bottle of the stuff in and giving it a go.
cheers
Paul
The airflow into the rad area of my engine bay is limited and I was very sceptical about Zirgo's claim of 20+degrees of temp reduction once fitted.
Now there is no way that my temperature readings have dropped that much but I have seen a difference on my guage.
The engine runs spot on now whatever the weather.
Reading the other posts about this you are not going to cause any problems by pouring a bottle of the stuff in and giving it a go.
cheers
Paul
That must be boll*x. The thermostat will maintain a reasonably constant temperature if it's working correctly. They clearly don't understand how a cooling system is controlled.gelmonkey wrote:Zirgo's claim of 20+degrees of temp reduction once fitted.
Chris.
--
Series IIA 4.6 V8
R/R P38 4.6 V8
R/R L405 4.4 SDV8
Series IIA 4.6 V8
R/R P38 4.6 V8
R/R L405 4.4 SDV8
"That must be boll*x. The thermostat will maintain a reasonably constant temperature if it's working correctly. They clearly don't understand how a cooling system is controlled."
It would be so if the folowing conditions existed.
1/ the thermostat opened instantly to zero restriction at a given temperature.
2/ the cooling system was of sufficient capacity for the incomming coolant to the engine block not to rise in temperature as a result of the hot water in the engine entering the radiator side of the system.
As both these conditions do not exist the system stabalises not at the temperature of the thermostat opening temperature but at a higher
temperature that is dependent on among otherthings the rate of transfer of heat to the coolent from the block. If this stuff does change the rate of heat transfer to the coolent by "wetting" the water jacket better, then the temperature that the system settles at will change with the thermostat open, provided the rest of the system stays the same. Likewise if any other of the given set of external cooling conditions change (eg external temperature, heater use) the settling temperature will change.
Best regards
Mike
It would be so if the folowing conditions existed.
1/ the thermostat opened instantly to zero restriction at a given temperature.
2/ the cooling system was of sufficient capacity for the incomming coolant to the engine block not to rise in temperature as a result of the hot water in the engine entering the radiator side of the system.
As both these conditions do not exist the system stabalises not at the temperature of the thermostat opening temperature but at a higher
temperature that is dependent on among otherthings the rate of transfer of heat to the coolent from the block. If this stuff does change the rate of heat transfer to the coolent by "wetting" the water jacket better, then the temperature that the system settles at will change with the thermostat open, provided the rest of the system stays the same. Likewise if any other of the given set of external cooling conditions change (eg external temperature, heater use) the settling temperature will change.
Best regards
Mike
poppet valves rule!
OK, so the magic water wetter lowers the coolant temp by 20 degrees. What happens next?, the thermostat closes, and the temperature rises........
If it were to do anything, it would alter the opening percentage of the thermostat for a given set of engine operating conditions.
I would like to see a scientific test on this stuff, otherwise I remain unconvinced. And I don't mean 'my mate tried it and it was good!'
First google result:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2008/0 ... AE-review/
Chris.
If it were to do anything, it would alter the opening percentage of the thermostat for a given set of engine operating conditions.
I would like to see a scientific test on this stuff, otherwise I remain unconvinced. And I don't mean 'my mate tried it and it was good!'
First google result:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2008/0 ... AE-review/
Chris.
--
Series IIA 4.6 V8
R/R P38 4.6 V8
R/R L405 4.4 SDV8
Series IIA 4.6 V8
R/R P38 4.6 V8
R/R L405 4.4 SDV8
Hi Chris
a water wetter is never going to shift the settling point 20C, but I could believe 4 or 5. There are several factors here, some giving negative feed back, some positive, and some damping. Control systems that produce a stable operating peramiters generally have negative feed back to return the system toward the desired operating point, positive to accelerate the system to that stable condition (and strangly add dynamic damping) and some form of input and feed back damping. Change any one and you will change the stable condiyions.
What this stuff is doing is not necesserily just removing heat to produce the change, it is effecting the settling point (quiesence) of the system as a whole.
Best regards
Mike
a water wetter is never going to shift the settling point 20C, but I could believe 4 or 5. There are several factors here, some giving negative feed back, some positive, and some damping. Control systems that produce a stable operating peramiters generally have negative feed back to return the system toward the desired operating point, positive to accelerate the system to that stable condition (and strangly add dynamic damping) and some form of input and feed back damping. Change any one and you will change the stable condiyions.
What this stuff is doing is not necesserily just removing heat to produce the change, it is effecting the settling point (quiesence) of the system as a whole.
Best regards
Mike
poppet valves rule!
But under certain conditions, the engine/rad combination can't keep the water temp below the thermostat open point. Usually at low road speeds where there is little ram effect through the rad. That's where the cooling fan(s) are required.ChrisJC wrote:That must be boll*x. The thermostat will maintain a reasonably constant temperature if it's working correctly. They clearly don't understand how a cooling system is controlled.gelmonkey wrote:Zirgo's claim of 20+degrees of temp reduction once fitted.
Chris.
So it is just possible some magic additive could improve the transfer from the rad to the coolant.
Dave
London SW
Rover SD1 VDP EFI
MegaSquirt2 V3
EDIS8
Tech Edge 2Y
London SW
Rover SD1 VDP EFI
MegaSquirt2 V3
EDIS8
Tech Edge 2Y
I asked a similar question years ago about the stuff, this is one of the replies i recieved, read to the bottom of it regarding the use of distilled water 
"Something you may want to try would be to run propylene glycol straight, with no water. I have not tried yet, bu will this summer, here is why. A 50:50 mixture of ethylene glycol/water is good ~223 F @ atmospheric. Ethylene glycol by itself is not as good a BTU conductant. Water is the best for heat absorption below its boiling point. Ehtylene glycol by itself is good for ~355_365 F @ atmospheric. Apparently studies have shown that even under 15# pressure there is a problem in heat transfer when water (even in solution) is in the system. In the areas like around the cylinders, and specially the heads there forms a small vapor, and bubbles area as watter is boiling in small areas. A high pressure cap helps to control but does not stop it. This happens even in high pressure boilers. Now the temperature we read is a combination at a later point in the flow of water through the engine. This bubble and water vapor pocket formation hinders the heat transfer capability, and thats where pure propelene glycol becomes superiror. Your liquid temperature most probably will show a higher temp, but you will not have boil over, and the heat transfer will actually be higher, as the coolant will be transfering BTU's much more efficiently. People that use it can actually go down in radiator size which with Anglias would be a plus. You can go to no pressure, or even a low 3-4# pressure cap and have a safer system. Propylene Glycol is also not a poison like Ethylene glycol is, and if it spills on the ground is biodiagradeable.
Like I said I have not tried yet, but have done my due diligence and will be installing it in my tow vehicle and our transportation cars.
The idea of Watter Wetter is that it act as penetrant, and thats one of the charecteristics of how detergents clean they have surfactants. Surfactants allow water to penetrate, allowing dirt to be lifted and washed away. Detergent and watter wetter will share some of the same characteristics, but detergents very often will also have emusifiers which will promote foaming to keep dirt suspended, this is not good for a coolant application. If you use detergent try to get a low foaming detergent and dont use to much. Propylene glycol will do similar because by not boiling it will adhere to the surfaces much better than water that is boiling and bubbling causing vapor and pocket formation. Another benefit is that with no water in the solution, if the propylene glycol is formulated as antifreeze/coolant for vehicles the additive package to keep the coolant from going corrosive will last much longer.
Distilled watter initially appears superior because by being distilled should be free of solids, and minerals which inhibit BTU transfer. However the downside here is that distilled watter will become acidic more readily without base additives, and promote corrosion which ends up nullifying distilled watters intial advantage of no solid/mineral contamination."
"Something you may want to try would be to run propylene glycol straight, with no water. I have not tried yet, bu will this summer, here is why. A 50:50 mixture of ethylene glycol/water is good ~223 F @ atmospheric. Ethylene glycol by itself is not as good a BTU conductant. Water is the best for heat absorption below its boiling point. Ehtylene glycol by itself is good for ~355_365 F @ atmospheric. Apparently studies have shown that even under 15# pressure there is a problem in heat transfer when water (even in solution) is in the system. In the areas like around the cylinders, and specially the heads there forms a small vapor, and bubbles area as watter is boiling in small areas. A high pressure cap helps to control but does not stop it. This happens even in high pressure boilers. Now the temperature we read is a combination at a later point in the flow of water through the engine. This bubble and water vapor pocket formation hinders the heat transfer capability, and thats where pure propelene glycol becomes superiror. Your liquid temperature most probably will show a higher temp, but you will not have boil over, and the heat transfer will actually be higher, as the coolant will be transfering BTU's much more efficiently. People that use it can actually go down in radiator size which with Anglias would be a plus. You can go to no pressure, or even a low 3-4# pressure cap and have a safer system. Propylene Glycol is also not a poison like Ethylene glycol is, and if it spills on the ground is biodiagradeable.
Like I said I have not tried yet, but have done my due diligence and will be installing it in my tow vehicle and our transportation cars.
The idea of Watter Wetter is that it act as penetrant, and thats one of the charecteristics of how detergents clean they have surfactants. Surfactants allow water to penetrate, allowing dirt to be lifted and washed away. Detergent and watter wetter will share some of the same characteristics, but detergents very often will also have emusifiers which will promote foaming to keep dirt suspended, this is not good for a coolant application. If you use detergent try to get a low foaming detergent and dont use to much. Propylene glycol will do similar because by not boiling it will adhere to the surfaces much better than water that is boiling and bubbling causing vapor and pocket formation. Another benefit is that with no water in the solution, if the propylene glycol is formulated as antifreeze/coolant for vehicles the additive package to keep the coolant from going corrosive will last much longer.
Distilled watter initially appears superior because by being distilled should be free of solids, and minerals which inhibit BTU transfer. However the downside here is that distilled watter will become acidic more readily without base additives, and promote corrosion which ends up nullifying distilled watters intial advantage of no solid/mineral contamination."
So thats where it went !
